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Elementary OS Freya Released

elementary.io

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Re: Elementary OS Freya Released

#71
post #69
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are relatively new here, but you should've seen this. Please read it. http://blog.ycombinator.com/new-hacker-news-guideline

This is a red herring -- the OP's post didn't say anything that was overly or gratuitously negative, at least not compared to many of the other comments on this thread. It's very true that saying that users are 'cheating the system' when they expect a libre product to be provided to them free of charge when the developers of said product themselves have added little more than a glossy sheen upon years of blood, sweat…

You are welcome to download the source code to Elementary OS for free. Whichever way you frame your "think of the children" logic, the team at eOS are doing things the right way. The gripe here seems to be that they are monetising. Free as in liberty, not as in beer. There is nothing in any version of the GPL that says money may not be charged for compiled binaries. From the debian.org site, on whose shoulders eOS is ultimately standing;

"Many people new to free software find themselves confused because the word "free" in the term "free software" is not used the way they expect. To them free means "at no cost". An English dictionary lists almost twenty different meanings for "free". Only one of them is "at no cost". The rest refer to liberty and lack of constraint. When we speak of Free Software, we mean freedom, not price."

Canonical ask for donations on the download page too. The BSDs have donation drives. eOS are monetising in a different way. I have not seen the "cheating the system" comment/article and if they did say it, it was wrong. That said, it isn't there now.

The "little more than a glossy sheen" remark is off too. They are considering usability and are adding to the community. But hey, pretty doesn't belong in Linux does it? This attitude stinks and is largely why designers won't engage with the community, that and this self righteousness that pervades.

Re: Elementary OS Freya Released

#72

Talk about a terribly designed website. If someone had no idea what Elementary OS is, the website does absolutely nothing to tell them. No list of even basic features. No explanation of compatibility or how to install it. Only a single screenshot. Why is this the case?

Ironic really, especially give the teams focus on usability!

Re: Elementary OS Freya Released

#73
post #47

Did anyone try it on recent macbookpro? I have one somewhere I am not using, because i did not like how kde/gnome shell looked on retina screen, and wonder if eOS solved this problem.

I haven't used it yet, but I understand that perfect retina rendering (as in something they would advertise as a feature) is pencilled in for the release after this.

Re: Elementary OS Freya Released

#74
Some really vindictive and nasty comments on here, it's just a linux distro!

One thing that concerns me is the upgrade path, it mentions in their docs that if you are using a previous version of the OS, you need to back up your data and reinstall.

Re: Elementary OS Freya Released

#76
post #70
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

elementary OS have a similar mentality to the Vivaldi browser -- it's just for our friends. Despite leading with donation panhandling. Still, I'm using it now because I am tired of Slackware. I love Slack to bits but the amount of work involved in making my setup look and play nice is just silly. I'm looking for something like a one-click-pretty-usable Linux for random laptops/PCs I've accumulated. PapyrOS might be n…

I'm going to get a lot of hate for this but if you really, honestly want a no-frills, easy to set up UNIX for your personal computer, there really is no better machine than a Macintosh.

I have to agree. As ridiculous and disgusting Apple is as a company, OSX still offers the best UNIX experience. But I applaud any attemt to change that fact.

Re: Elementary OS Freya Released

#77
post #50

It really saddens me how much people underestimate the effort it takes to create a good UI by saying eOS is just a "pretty Ubuntu clone". I don't think their blog post[1] is offensive at all. Ubuntu does this too. [2] People consider Sublime's popup and "unregistered user" acceptable. How often do you install/download eOS? Once in a year? And you use it every-day , not only when you do text-editing. And there is no d…

It's not offensive now because they've changed the text (a while ago). Originally it said that people who didn't pay for eOS were "cheating the system".

Some people could find that offensive, especially when eOS gets the vast majority of its codebase for free from Debian, Ubuntu and the rest of the FOSS world. What the eOS guys said was offensive to some people, and downright idiotic to everyone else!

Re: Elementary OS Freya Released

#78
post #50

It really saddens me how much people underestimate the effort it takes to create a good UI by saying eOS is just a "pretty Ubuntu clone". I don't think their blog post[1] is offensive at all. Ubuntu does this too. [2] People consider Sublime's popup and "unregistered user" acceptable. How often do you install/download eOS? Once in a year? And you use it every-day , not only when you do text-editing. And there is no d…

Yes, elementary have put in a huge amount of work to produce an excellent product, and a major step towards where Linux needs to be to attract non technical users, and it is disappointing that so many people seem to be willing to throw them and their years of work under the bus for what amounts to poorly chosen wording.

On the substance rather than the wording, surely Hacker News does not agree, as a group, that open source software should never be monetized, especially on a voluntary basis. They have rewritten the Linux desktop environment from scratch, which is an enormous amount of work, and in my experience it works very well. Why not expect that you could find 10,000 users, many of whom people spending their professional life on computers, willing to pay $20 (which in the UK is about 4 cups of coffee), and actually be able to support some developers working on the project full time? That is not at all an unreasonable goal.

I know about 20 people over the age of 70 who I periodically help with computer problems, I would say about half of them still using XP on computers that cannot be upgraded to Windows 8. They principally use their computers for checking webmail and browsing the internet.

I have tried Ubuntu, but unfortunately it has all sorts of minor UI ruffles which make it difficult for many non-technical people to use. Some examples are: people really struggle to use its pop-up scroll bars, partly because the concept is apparently non obvious, and needs to be explained, and partly because they're fiddly. Then, programs often open in the background, and don't come to the front, so the only sign they're ready is an illuminated icon to the left. And, you get regular pop-up which say 'serious system error detected' which never seem to amount to anything.

And in general, I would say my experience is that it is not beautiful, polished or consistent enough to justify to non technical users the change in user interface which it asks them to make.

Linux is effectively a developer market, it is written by and for developers, to stratch and itch or for infrastructure. But there has been a consistent failure to produce an operating system that ordinary people want to use. In my opinion, Linux also needs a consumer market, which is willing to pay to bring in other professionals, principally designers, and support them in polishing the user interface, in the way that users want, to a heavy sheen. Elementary OS was a step in that direction, and it's very disappointing to see it apparently shot down for a lack of ideological purity and/or just being abrasive. Hopefully, despite the level of outrage which many people feel, they will be able to find their 10,000 users out of the general Linux community, and carry on regardless.

Re: Elementary OS Freya Released

#79
post #76
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to get a lot of hate for this but if you really, honestly want a no-frills, easy to set up UNIX for your personal computer, there really is no better machine than a Macintosh.

I have to agree. As ridiculous and disgusting Apple is as a company, OSX still offers the best UNIX experience. But I applaud any attemt to change that fact.

Yeah, but that would require the distro maintainers to sell their own computers, which they support and test their distro against before releasing. Most distro maintainers don't really like the thought of that.

Re: Elementary OS Freya Released

#80
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of upset came from the original version of that blog post, especially the now absent sentence > We want users to understand that they’re pretty much cheating the system when they choose not to pay for software.

Ok, that's a bit different, specially if they mean that in the general, unless they are contributing directly to every single project they package with their distro and paying every contributor. They are still within their rights to decide that their add-ons are proprietary non-zero cost software, at least those add-ons that don't link GPL code/modify LGPL code. But if their main value added is indeed modifying GPL c…

Why? Developing software requires man-hours, likewise modifying software. It's not wrong to want compensation for that, regardless of license. Or maybe you hold the opinion that everyone who releases software under the GPL are suckers who shouldn't expect anything?
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