If you testify, a company that is good and wants good people to work there might see you in a more positive light. This can have positive external effects.
Ask HN: Should I testify?
211–220 of 250 posts
Re: Ask HN: Should I testify?
#212I'll give the consultant answer- it depends. There are still a surprising number of employers who don't do a internet search on prospective employees, but assuming you apply to one that does, testimony would only have a negative effect if they a) found the testimony and b) thought you to be risk because of it.
As others have said a) is pretty easy to avoid if you aren't the star witness in a major trial and you have any sort of web presence (or you have the same name as someone famous.) Assuming a potential employer did hear about the trial, they are going to care a lot more if your testimony is related to something they MIGHT be doing\accused of doing. If you are being asked to testify that your ex-employer over worked employees or allowed a culture of harassment to exist, then sadly the HR person or hiring manager may worry that you'd make an accusation against them because those conditions are sadly pervasive and\or subjective. If on the other hand you are testifying that the ex employer is clubbing baby seals to make fancy watch bands, then they are much less likely to care because they know they aren't also clubbing baby seals (or if they are, you should be happy they pass on you.)
On a personal level, I'd probably ask them to get a subpoena and testify. I'm reading between the lines, but it sounds like you think it's the right thing to do. If you really believe that then it's worth doing, even if it might have s marginal effect on your some job applications down the line. Tech is big, good engineers are scarce, and most jobs will come from your personal network anyways, and the small downside is worth sleeping well at night.
Re: Ask HN: Should I testify?
#213I'm going to answer from my own experience, which may or may not fit your situation at all (you're kind of vague about it, so there's no way to judge). This is also in part inspired by the comment of humanarity ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9360218 ) Several years ago in The Netherlands we had a website blockade of The PirateBay. Most ISPs had to block it, it was stupid, and it did not work at all. The ISPs…
And now downloads have been made illegal. So you were right in the short term but the longer term effects were actually worse than the blockade was! Still, kudos for standing up for what you felt was right and not giving in in the face of such pressure, that was pretty brave.
I have less of a problem with downloading being illegal in general. I strongly object to censorship in a democratic society, especially without a good checking mechanism or rules about ending a blockade.
Re: Ask HN: Should I testify?
#214I'm going to answer from my own experience, which may or may not fit your situation at all (you're kind of vague about it, so there's no way to judge). This is also in part inspired by the comment of humanarity ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9360218 ) Several years ago in The Netherlands we had a website blockade of The PirateBay. Most ISPs had to block it, it was stupid, and it did not work at all. The ISPs…
Is your paper available online? I would like to read it.
Like I said, this changed my interests and career. I've written several papers on this, including one analyzing the ethical aspects of violating users' privacy to support a general cause.
All papers are online at staff.fnwi.uva.nl/j.j.vanderham/research/articles.html
Re: Ask HN: Should I testify?
#215Don't be afraid, I would always hold someone with ethics above a peer of comparable ability and background. Testifying against someone who has done wrong would only prove an ethical standing.
Re: Ask HN: Should I testify?
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. I think a lot of technical people are extremely naive about how corporate politics work. As we enjoy solving technical puzzles, a similar game is played by ambitious people in management at various levels, and ethics takes a seat at the back of the bus. Oh sure, they will say all the right words (if you can get them to say anything), but their actions are very different from words. And, they seem to be able…
Do these corporite politics apply to a company the size of, say, segment.io? How about Dropbox? Apple? I have a hunch that they type of politics you encounter will vary widely based on the size of the company. Edit: scare quotes were not needed
I would say it is probably present everywhere, but in different forms and to different degrees. My hunch is that it is most present in companies whose core business is not technology (software/hardware), but it's just a hunch.
Re: Ask HN: Should I testify?
#217The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. (a line from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqpoeVgr8U , if you've not seen it)
Can you live with yourself ethically if you don't testify?
Are there ways that telling the truth about what you witnessed could actually be an advantage to your career?
Say, for example, that you witnessed sexual harassment and were put on the stand to talk about that. Sure, there may be some shitweasel who won't hire you because you "snitched" - but there may be a woman founder of a healthier and more profitable company (http://qz.com/361602/companies-run-by-women-perform-better/ , just sayin') who takes your having testified as a positive, rather than a negative, signal.
Integrity counts for a lot. If someone doesn't want to hire you because you showed integrity under difficult circumstances, did you really want to work for them in the first place?
Now if you're worried about testifying because you yourself behaved unethically, that's a whole other story.
Re: Ask HN: Should I testify?
#218Tell them to subpoena you - then the choice to testify is not yours any more. You'll have to. But you can tell future employers that you were forced, if you'd like to.
If you want to testify, asking them to subpoena you seems smart. I can't see how a subpoena could make testifying look worse, and yes, it just might alleviate some employers' concerns. But your first step seems to be deciding, for yourself, if testifying is the right thing to do. What if someone asks, "Did you ask to be subpoenaed?" Most people won't go that deep, but wouldn't you still like to feel comfortable answering that? Do you want to let unproven fears about this somewhat crazy but very diverse industry sway your decision? What will you think when you look back on this in 5 years?
Re: Ask HN: Should I testify?
#219Edit: OP, if you read what I wrote, you will see why you shouldn't use the number of upvotes to make your decision: the point is precisely that a 'popular' choice can quickly turn south. At this point, all these upvotes will have disappeared and you will be alone facing the consequences. ---- If they did something so awful that it's keeping you awake at night, do it. Otherwise, don't. ... Wait... are you still readin…
I'm genuinely curious about the downvotes. Which part of what I said didn't you like? Is it because you think he should testify, and you just downvote the opposed side? Is it because you don't agree with my hypothetical employer? Is it because you don't like the distinction between morality and law? It would be much more helpful to say what you don't agree with.
Please resist the temptation to post about being downvoted, even though having a comment downvoted is frustrating. (It is for all of us.)
Re: Ask HN: Should I testify?
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
It belies the fact that OP prompted the lawyers to subpoena him.
Could you explain what exactly you see as the difference between "I won't cooperate unless you subpoena me" and "I would like to cooperate, but I don't want this to affect my future job prospects, so please subpoena me"? The OP is prompting the subpoena in either case, as far as I can tell. In either case, the other side can choose whether or not to subpoena him/her. I'm not sure I see any difference between the two.…
I think the first OOP said something like "Tell them to subpoena you".