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Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

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Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#351

Post by danielweber »

coldtea wrote: post #343
sls wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> JWZ used to say that Linux is only free if you don't value your time. My reply to that has always been that Windows is only $300 if you don't value your time. (Preserving archaic cost of Windows to match JWZ quote.) The implication that the one system is free and time-consuming and the other moderately in price but not time-consuming is entirely false. At the time, for many requirements, configuring and administeri…

> The implication that the one system is free and time-consuming and the other moderately in price but not time-consuming is entirely false. Haven't found that to be the case. And I'm an old UNIX hat, using SUN OS, HP UX et al in the early nineties and Linux from around 1998. My two observations: 1) Linux, even the most modern distro like Ubuntu, is a huge time sync for anyone that's not just content to browse the we…

Things I've encountered frequently:

1. "I need to do X in Linux." Web search for software.

2. Try to install it. Find out I need Gnome 3.44 and I'm not running Gnome at all.

3. Find something else. This doesn't seen Gnome.

4. I try to install it. Wait, I need a newer version of a library.

5. I grab the latest version of that library. Wait, idiot, that version is TOO NEW!

6. So I find the exact version and install it and oh son of a cow now everything is broken.

And at each step there's a different sub-community telling me I'm a complete idiot. ("Why don't you use Gnome?" "Why don't you use package manager X?" "Why the fuck are you using that package manager???!")

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#352

Post by wfunction »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #297
pquerna wrote: post #4

Title is a little generous about "hidden", the exploit revolves around API & Framework used to power the parts of the control panel, and its authorization scheme being broken. I do think its too bad that setuid binaries don't have additional restrictions, like 100% must be code-signed or must be run in a sandbox-exec[1] based on that signing. [1] - https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Darwin...

Code signing is not interesting. If normal people can get their code signed then so can the attacker and if they can't then it locks you out of your own computer. The only thing code signing is really good for is to verify that an update to a program the machine's owner installed was signed by the same author as the original program, and unfortunately it's rarely implemented that way. But that's not really what you'r…

> That's why the Windows security model is so silly. An administrator is not allowed to 'su' to another user without the user's password but any reasonable subset of the administrator's privileges can be used to silently cause any user to execute arbitrary code

That's like saying kernel memory protection is silly when the user is an admin because he could just as well load a driver into the system to wreak whatever havoc he wants.

Yes, he could. No, it's not silly.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#353

Post by baldfat »

mwfunk wrote: post #189
jotux wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which was a response to: >Apple's model customer is one who upgrades often. If you want solid support for old products, stick with Microsoft, and accept that their products can be clunkier because of deliberate choices to maintain backwards-compatibility. He was rebutting that regular upgrades are somehow a type of revenue to apple since they are free and work on some previous generation hardware. How is that apologe…

It sounds apologetic to him because he's more interested in tribalism than business or technology. It's not unlike much religious fundamentalism- the pursuit of truth takes a back seat to the pursuit of feeling like you're right about things, especially if it means you get to hate a caricature of some other group of people and blame some of your personal disappointments on them. A similar force seems to drive politic…

Wait saying that 5 years hardware support is to short is wrong and that yearly updates in OS makes me into a religious Anti-Apple Zealot and Tribalism?

I don't like Apple's business practices, hard to hack devices and technology philosophy doesn't mean I am Tribal.

I have many machines that are over 5 years old.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#354

Post by pXMzR2A »

jotux wrote: post #199
pXMzR2A wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Zero people Reread the comments.

Please link to a comment that says something remotely close to, "So what? Just upgrade. Simples"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9348257

The second comment from the top when you go to

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9347669

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#355

Post by dguaraglia »

MBCook wrote: post #345
72deluxe wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you upgrade to an SSD? I have a 2012 MBP non-retina with a slow Toshiba drive in it (it seems it is entirely coincidental whether you'll get a Toshiba or Samsung in your new MacBook!) and I am considering upgrading to an SSD. I use BootCamp (periodic Windows gaming) and have a bunch of large VMs within OSX, so I would be interested in how the upgrade went and where to look, how to clone my disk etc. etc.

Yes. It makes all the difference in the world, far more than the additional RAM. Upgrade was an easy drive pull and replace, and I just restored from Time Machine to get all my data back. No fuss. But I don't have a windows partition or anything else special. I imagine it will be a bit more work for you since you'll need to backup the Windows partition and restore it.

I was tempted to do that, but to be honest the battery of that computer is kind of shot (it only lasts about 3 hours nowadays) so I didn't think it was worth spending the money. Might as well sell that one and spend a few hundred more to get something with a retina display and a factory SSD :)

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#356

Post by jotux »

pXMzR2A wrote: post #354
jotux wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please link to a comment that says something remotely close to, "So what? Just upgrade. Simples"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9348257 The second comment from the top when you go to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9347669

>Apple's model customer is one who upgrades often. If you want solid support for old products, stick with Microsoft, and accept that their products can be clunkier because of deliberate choices to maintain backwards-compatibility.

This is nothing close to "So what? Just upgrade." He's saying that from apple's perspective the best customer is one who upgrades their machine on every upgrade cycle which explains why they don't care about previous generation OSes. And how can you say this comment is apple-apologetic when he goes on to say that Microsoft does a better job maintaining backwards-compatibility?

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#357

Post by AnthonyMouse »

superuser2 wrote: post #300
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Code signing is not interesting. If normal people can get their code signed then so can the attacker and if they can't then it locks you out of your own computer. The only thing code signing is really good for is to verify that an update to a program the machine's owner installed was signed by the same author as the original program, and unfortunately it's rarely implemented that way. But that's not really what you'r…

>then so can the attacker Maybe, but the attacker can also get their certificate revoked when their activities are discovered.

...if their activities are discovered. And then the attacker just gets another certificate under a different name, or steals somebody else's certificate. Ignoring, of course, that revocation is totally broken.

It cannot simultaneously be easy for anyone to get a certificate and hard for an attacker to get a certificate.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#358

Post by AnthonyMouse »

wfunction wrote: post #352
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Code signing is not interesting. If normal people can get their code signed then so can the attacker and if they can't then it locks you out of your own computer. The only thing code signing is really good for is to verify that an update to a program the machine's owner installed was signed by the same author as the original program, and unfortunately it's rarely implemented that way. But that's not really what you'r…

> That's why the Windows security model is so silly. An administrator is not allowed to 'su' to another user without the user's password but any reasonable subset of the administrator's privileges can be used to silently cause any user to execute arbitrary code That's like saying kernel memory protection is silly when the user is an admin because he could just as well load a driver into the system to wreak whatever h…

Memory protection is not silly. Not being able to bypass memory protection (and therefore prohibiting all manner of debugging tools) is silly, and that is the appropriate analogy.

If a user correctly has permission to do a thing via a series of ugly hacks then there is no reason not to just let the user do the thing directly.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#359

Post by Snesker »

72deluxe wrote: post #316
utbabya wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm probably biased. After a year I find the only advantage of OSX are browser with touchpad gesture experience and windows edge handling. Haven't tried any distro ever since switching to MBP, wayland might have a better chance of replicating the experience. Hoping for the camera driver to be done. In Linux everything else is better, fuller implementation of base tools, customizability, no crap like /var/folders..

"In Linux everything else is better" This is entirely subjective; it is not a wise comment to make because it is better FOR YOU, not for everyone. For me, I liked the configurability in Linux desktop land but there comes a time when you want to sit in your office and get stuff done instead of spending all the time moving the furniture around and decorating; OSX doesn't let you do any decorating or move the furniture,…

Is your comment saying 'linux is amazing, I just can't stop ricing it and get to work! OSX is better because it doesn't let me customize it'?

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#360

Post by Snesker »

tokenizerrr wrote: post #267
dwyer wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe I should go back to Snow Leopard; I can't think of a single valuable change to OS X since then... I wish I had that option, but I'm an iOS developer, so I upgrade when Apple forces me to, and right now their forcing Mavericks and up. > Linux is only free if you don't value your time. Amazing how the largest server farms on earth are all run by administrators who don't value their time...

There's a large difference between linux on the server and on your (personal) desktop.

Not knowing how to operate a server, I have to assume it's harder and you have to know everything it does and the CLI to use it. Not the same for mint or any other pre-packaged distros.
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