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Reasons not to buy from Amazon

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Re: Reasons not to buy from Amazon

#101

Post by Guvante »

amyjess wrote: post #79
baddox wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most software licenses don't let you anywhere near the source, don't let you modify the code, Are there any software licenses where the source code is provided but you are prohibited to view or modify it?

I can't think of any where you can't view it, but there are several licenses that allow you to view but not modify. Microsoft is in the habit of letting development partners view their source but not publish or modify it, and then there's software like UW Pico that have licenses that allow viewing by the general public but not modification.

Microsoft is certainly not the only one who did this. Many business to business deals involve read only access to source code (usually by platform providers).

Re: Reasons not to buy from Amazon

#102

Post by belorn »

specialk wrote: post #16

> "Amazon cut off service to Wikileaks, claiming that whistleblowing violates its terms of service. It had no need to go to court to prove this, because if you rent a server from Amazon, you have no rights." I find it highly amusing that RMS doesn't seem to agree with Amazon's restrictive ToS agreement but his GNU software license is one of the most restrictive licenses out there. If I include a GNU licensed library…

lose all my rights? Now lets follow that logic a bit.

If I go outside, I lose all my rights! I can't kill anyone, steal from people, or fire a weapon intro crowds. I am not even allowed to wave a knife around, or stab anyone. Its completely unfair, and people have the gall to claim that I live in a free country. Its the most restrictive country out there!

And parks. They have the most restrictions I know. I can't put it on fire, use it as a garbage dump, or as a dumping ground for my killing sprees. How dare the government spend tax money on parks and claim its for public use. Public use?!? I just happen to walk in there and I get all this restrictions put on me.

(I think "one of the most restrictive licenses out there" is a tad over-exaggerated, but then, anyone is allowed to their view about restrictions...)

Re: Reasons not to buy from Amazon

#103

Post by harrumph »

strictnein wrote: post #15

> "Amazon was a member of ALEC...." > "Amazon quit ALEC after public pressure in May 2012, but I am sure it still supports the same nasty policies and is waiting for a new tool to achieve them." Seriously? Come on.

I think RMS is correct here.

Corporate membership in an organization whose purpose is to impose market and private mechanisms on whole populations by writing these into state and local law (this is precisely what ALEC does) should be interpreted as an irrevocable announcement that the management of the corporation does in fact endorse imposing its interests on whole populations using state and local law.

Amazon left ALEC but did not also replace its leadership at the same time, so its leaving can't be construed as a change of perspective on the imposition of legislation as a business strategy. At most you can say that Amazon's execs decided that the costs of openly associating with those aims were high enough to end open association.

Re: Reasons not to buy from Amazon

#104

Post by SquidMagnet »

meepmorp wrote: post #88
danbruc wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you build something you should definitely have something to say about what others can do with your work, especially if you give it away for free. And nobody imposes something on you - you are perfectly free not to use GNU licensed things.

I don't recall arguing otherwise. But compared to the BSD license, it's definitely more restrictive about derivative works. Also, the slavery analogy is stupid.

I think it would be helpful to be clearer as to why you disagree with the analogy rather than simply calling it stupid.

If I had to guess, I would suspect that your real issue is that you do not find the things being restricted to be comparable (i.e., human life/will vs. the use of software), rather than believing that the comparison is somehow invalid for other reasons.

Re: Reasons not to buy from Amazon

#105

Post by Guvante »

sp332 wrote: post #73
forthefuture wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strawman. It could also be like saying laws against gay marriage restrict freedom. You aren't making a point about reality, you're just comparing two things that have one thing in common. You lose your rights to your code if any of your code includes GPL code. Many people who write code necessarily avoid the GPL because of this.

You don't lose the rights to your code. The original copyright owner still owns the copyright on their code. That's why you have to follow the rules of the license they gave you. You can still distribute your code under whatever license you want.

> You can still distribute your code under whatever license you want.

That actually isn't true.

> You must license the entire work, as a whole, under this License to anyone who comes into possession of a copy.

You are required to distribute it under GPL v3. I don't know enough legalese to determine if distributing the modifications alone as a parallel license is allowed.

Re: Reasons not to buy from Amazon

#106

Post by Lawtonfogle »

strictnein wrote: post #15

> "Amazon was a member of ALEC...." > "Amazon quit ALEC after public pressure in May 2012, but I am sure it still supports the same nasty policies and is waiting for a new tool to achieve them." Seriously? Come on.

That is probably one of the most reasonable disagreements that can be made.

Take some random person and say they use to be a member of some bad organization. Let's pick the WBC (but you can pick many others). Now, say they quit, not because of a change of heart, but because of political pressure that was costing them money. Is this someone you would consider a decent person? I wouldn't.

Re: Reasons not to buy from Amazon

#107

Post by harrumph »

vixen99 wrote: post #62

Small point: tax avoidance is legal and sensible. Would anyone or any company seek to maximize its tax bill bar bizarre circumstances? Rather, the reverse. If there's a devastating avoidance loophole it's the job of government to redraft the regulations or let the courts decide.

This is a fair assignment of responsibility only in a world where corporate representation does not extend to that regulatory sphere. But it absolutely does. There is a free market for political results and favorable tax code edits are the deliverables in this cash market.

Re: Reasons not to buy from Amazon

#108

Post by SquidMagnet »

forthefuture wrote: post #59
cgag wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restrictive in that it prevents you from fucking people over. This is like saying laws against slavery restrict freedom (freedom to own slaves). https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/freedom-or-power.html

That's a strawman. It could also be like saying laws against gay marriage restrict freedom. You aren't making a point about reality, you're just comparing two things that have one thing in common. You lose your rights to your code if any of your code includes GPL code. Many people who write code necessarily avoid the GPL because of this.

How do laws against gay marriage not restrict freedom?

Re: Reasons not to buy from Amazon

#109

Post by amyjess »

baddox wrote: post #94
amyjess wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why there's a distinction between "tax avoidance" and "tax evasion". Tax avoidance refers to using legal means to reduce your tax bill. Tax evasion means illegally not paying your taxes.

Yeah, and "dodging taxes" doesn't clearly distinguish between the too. Also note that a lot of people oppose perfectly legal tax avoidance techniques that they consider to be loopholes.

Agreed. I was going to put something in my post like "and that's why a good argument will make it clear which one you're talking about", but I ended up forgetting to put it in.

Also, tax avoidance is just plain smart. Any for-profit business that doesn't practice tax avoidance is just throwing away money.

Re: Reasons not to buy from Amazon

#110

Post by alfonsodev »

basseq wrote: post #2

Stallman raises some interesting points, but calling the Kindle a "Swindle" doesn't make for a very rational argument.

Reminds me https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...

SaaSS and SaaS: "... the term “Software as a Service” doesn't explain why the practice is bad. So we coined the term “Service as a Software Substitute”, which defines the bad practice more clearly and says what is bad about it"

Bare in mind the FSF is poor, it doesn't have a marketing department behind.

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