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The Null Professor (2014)

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Re: The Null Professor (2014)

#41

Post by kaitai »

partition wrote: post #40
iak8god wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yes, racial segregation of classes is something that enriches the upper class in general, and the prof is advocating this What in the world are you talking about? This? "...there are substantial differences in the way that various segments of the population learn ... maybe we need to use pedagogies that work better for each group." Do you really view this as a proposal to segregate classes by race or along any…

What could "use pedagogies that work better for each group" possibly mean other than racial and gender segregation? Here I'll break this down into pseudocode. for each group in racial_gender_groups: teachWithMaterialFor(group); Hell, she even cited "genetics" and "the way the brain is wired." You can't get any more blatant than this.

Even if you assume the most intellectually lazy thing here, this is not yet an argument for segregated classes. For a lazy example, I'll use height: men are on average taller than women. It does not mean we need to segregate them from each other. It means that we need to put items at a level where most people can reach them, and provide mechanisms for people who are dramatically shorter than the norm. That's nice for the ladies, but also helps short guys, people of any gender who are in wheelchairs, little people, etc. All without segregating.

In my classes I have a lot of students educated under a Chinese system and then many educated under a US system. They come with different background. I don't segregate them, but I do actively think about how their learning experiences have been different and how I can challenge all with material that doesn't needlessly advantage one over the other. Every now and then I have a German or a Cameroonian and that seems to work fine for them too.

I'm not a fan of arguments from genetics or brain wiring for teaching. It gets lazy, as noted above. But men and women do have some difference, and training your Crossfit crew for pull-ups with methods that are based on your experiences of the genders' musculatures and previous experience with pull-ups is just sensible. A lot of our CS experiences come with cultural context, rather than from brain wiring. Fine.

Re: The Null Professor (2014)

#42

Post by [deleted] »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #38
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #34

The problem with CS education is that many students have had experience programming (and with computers generally) during their teen years, so professors can get away with not properly teaching CS fundamentals as many students already know them, or at least enough to easily grasp the rest. But there are plenty of students who don't , and they're the ones left out. They have no idea how to program, and the useless pro…

The post specifically addresses this in paragraph two: > First, after the first few years of being a professor, my conclusion was the same: there’s nothing I can do, some students get it others don’t. I’ve learned a few things since then, and I know I was completely wrong. I was being a “Null Professor” at the time. Now I know better. ... > A Null Professor is someone who never has to think about pedagogy. The Null P…

[deleted]

Re: The Null Professor (2014)

#43

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #38
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #34

The problem with CS education is that many students have had experience programming (and with computers generally) during their teen years, so professors can get away with not properly teaching CS fundamentals as many students already know them, or at least enough to easily grasp the rest. But there are plenty of students who don't , and they're the ones left out. They have no idea how to program, and the useless pro…

The post specifically addresses this in paragraph two: > First, after the first few years of being a professor, my conclusion was the same: there’s nothing I can do, some students get it others don’t. I’ve learned a few things since then, and I know I was completely wrong. I was being a “Null Professor” at the time. Now I know better. ... > A Null Professor is someone who never has to think about pedagogy. The Null P…

Only partly. As lmkg points out (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9351075), the post hints at but doesn't directly state the aptitude/experience distinction.

Re: The Null Professor (2014)

#44

Post by brighteyes »

> A final word on genetics. There is increasing evidence that there are substantial differences in the way that various segments of the population learn. For example, studies have shown that men’s and women’s brains are wired differently. So maybe we need to use pedagogies that work better for each group, instead of uniformly using the white male-dominated learning paradigms that have been forced on us for centuries, only to discover that they tend to turn women off.

No. Just no.

First, the study linked to is indeed an interesting finding on neuronal differences between men and women... that is easily twisted to justify existing stereotypes. It doesn't actually say anything about FUNCTIONALITY - just anatomy. But it's easy for the author to connect those dots, despite no scientific basis.

Second, there are no "white male-dominated learning paradigms" that are SPECIAL to computer science. Women have achieved parity in biology, despite "white male-dominated learning paradigms" there, and women have achieved dominance in psychology, again despite "white male-dominated learning paradigms". Those show that such "paradigms" are not the issue.

Honestly, after such a thoughtful article, I was disappointed it ruined itself so thoroughly at the end.

Re: The Null Professor (2014)

#45

Post by jseliger »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #39
Confiks wrote: post #13

The author introduces a catchy archetype: The Null Professor. She then proceeds to tell a story about elite universities, which apparently are a breeding sites for such educators. When the author finally turns to explaining the term, 'pedagogy' is invoked. Just pedagogy. Somewhat later in the post, the word can even be clicked upon. I honestly hoped that the link would explain the specifics in teaching methodology, b…

If you asked an experienced effective high school teacher "how do you do it?" What could they tell you? It took a lot of work to learn how to teach: experimentation, analysis, etc...you simply have to learn how to teach! What you are fishing for is "how to teach", whereas Crista post is simply pointing out that "you have to learn how to teach". It is a bit circular, but in university most professors come in without a…

If you asked an experienced effective high school teacher "how do you do it?" What could they tell you? It took a lot of work to learn how to teach: experimentation, analysis, etc...you simply have to learn how to teach!

Take a look at Teach Like a Champion 2.0 by Lemov. It answers this precise question! (http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Like-Champion-2-0-Techniques/dp/...).

Re: The Null Professor (2014)

#46

Post by TheLoneWolfling »

The part about undergraduate versus graduate marks, to me at least, doesn't seem to say what the author thinks it says.

To me, it says "your marking scheme for graduates is broken".

The entire purpose of marks is to classify the people taking the course. Or, to put it another way:

When everyone is super, no-one is.

Re: The Null Professor (2014)

#47

Post by c2the3rd »

brighteyes wrote: post #44

> A final word on genetics. There is increasing evidence that there are substantial differences in the way that various segments of the population learn. For example, studies have shown that men’s and women’s brains are wired differently. So maybe we need to use pedagogies that work better for each group, instead of uniformly using the white male-dominated learning paradigms that have been forced on us for centuries,…

Structure influences functionality. This is the case in both engineering and biology.

For example, dolphins have tails and flippers while I have arms and legs. No one disputes the dolphin is a better swimmer and I am the superior runner.

Why should this be any different with brains? Brains with different structure are suited to different things.

Re: The Null Professor (2014)

#48

Post by c2the3rd »

Let me start by saying I do think there are definitely "Null Professors" who do not properly teach, and thus allow competent students to fail.

However, I must agree with the notion that some people inherently can't program. To take the most extreme case, do you think the dumbest human on earth could learn to program? I don't. All concepts require some level of intelligence to grasp. Many animals have some intelligence, but cannot learn how to count. Humans know how to count because humans originated the concept, and therefore the first human to do it must have had some intrinsic ability others lacked. Teaching can spread the insight, but it cannot create insight from nothing.

I will go one further to say some people who can't program make it into universities. Admissions aren't perfect. People can get in because of their parents, because the school wants them as an athlete, because of Affirmative Action, or a simple misjudgement by university staff.

I think people lose sight of this because intelligence and knowledge are so hard to measure. Footraces are much easier because you can only measure speed against a clock, and I know most humans will never have the ability to run a 4 minute mile. No women has done it yet.

This is not to say this makes some people "better" than others, but everyone has their own skills. It is folly to think everyone can do anything anyone else can do, even in principle.

Re: The Null Professor (2014)

#49

Post by zimpenfish »

peterfirefly wrote: post #12
kephra wrote: post #3

I compare coding with making music. You can teach everybody to make music, but most people are to shy to begin. Learning to make music requires lots of boring practice. Lot of people fail after a few month of guitar lessons as a kid. But then there are those manic musicians. A real musician must play everyday, regardless if he has audience, if he gets payed, if it sounds good to anybody but him. A real musician is ma…

> You can teach everybody to make music Probably not.

I guess it depends if you read "make" as "create" vs "play". The latter is more likely (but I'd still dispute it.)
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