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Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

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Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just some old-fashioned input guarding? if (input == nil) haltAndCatchFire(); Or whatever the Objective-C syntax for that is.

To make a scheme like that work, you'd essentially need to check before every single method invocation in your entire program because the issue — such as it is — is with method invocations being made against nil references, not with nil parameters being passed in as arguments to method calls. I was imagining something more like a modified version of the runtime's objc_msgSend() C function (which Obj-C method invocati…

Ah, I see. I think that at some point you have to trust something. The only true way is to never trust any of your inputs. This is, after all, what the JVM does in order to throw out kindly NullPointerExceptions on null dereferences. But realistically that is extremely consuming and has little payoff in most cases. I typically do not trust arguments, but do trust the results of functions to be what the documentation says it will be.

Static analysis could potentially go a long way here to expose values that could be potentially "infected" with nil. (And, for all I know, the JVM JIT could do exactly this to skip checks on provably non-null values.)

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, OS X updates are free and usually run well even on 5+ years old hardware. OS X has kinda gone the way of Chrome, with most users on the newest version.

To be even more fair, there's been a number of issues with Yosemite that make some of us want to stick with Mavericks. Just because something is free doesn't make it better.

Yep. JWZ used to say that Linux is only free if you don't value your time.

OS X has many merits on this front, but since 10.3 I've found that the first few dot releases of OS X have the same caveats often enough (both in terms of bugs/hazards and in terms of gratuitous UI "progress") that it usually seems better to wait past .x.4/5.

Now there's this, of course.

Since the problem showed up in 2011, maybe I should go back to Snow Leopard; I can't think of a single valuable change to OS X since then...

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#233

As someone who loathes Yosemite, I was hoping to find another fix for this. However, the exploit code when run in my console already returns "You need an administrator password" prompt. Huh? I'm running 10.9.5.

Run the python script at the end of the article as non admin/non root user. The script allows you to create a copy of a binary in say /usr/bin with "set user ID execution" bit set and owned by root! This should not be possible without root privileges.

This is pretty bad, and trivially exploitable. Basically anyone that has non-root access to your computer can trivially become root and take over the system.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#234
post #105
post #90

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I'm with you on this; I can't leave Mavericks just yet. Every colleague I have that's moved on has had numerous issues with their machine. And now this crap. Ugh.

What kind of issues? I've literally noticed no differences besides UI.

My wife and I have identical 2013 13" MBAs. Mine is on Mavericks. Hers, which was bought a little later, is on Yosemite. So, as close as possible, we've got identical HW with different software.

- My battery lasts longer, maybe 2-3 hours more per charge. I nearly never see We're considering blowing away her machine and pushing it back to mavericks with Time Machine/fresh install.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you absolutely need to read a PDF, Foxit Reader is free, as in beer. You're actually proving his point : on Windows something as basic as reading PDFs (yes you "absolutely" need that in 2015) requires specific knowledge of obscure names like "Foxit Reader". I'm not even going into annotating that PDF or adding your signature to it then. The same goes for : an office suite, a file manager with decent previewing+sm…

In fairness to Windows (and I can't believe I'm defending it because I happen to hate the platform!), bundling software is exactly what got Microsoft into trouble in previous years (Internet Explorer, MSN Messenger, Windows Defender, etc). Hopefully the package manager in Windows 10 will offer up a happy medium between expected software being easily available, and 3rd parties not being pushed out of the market place.

> bundling software is exactly what got Microsoft into trouble

Yes, if "bundling" is equivalent to threatening to "cut off Netscape's air supply", then, yes, "bundling" is exactly what got Microsoft into trouble.

Otherwise, no, "bundling" doesn't properly describe what happened.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know how many of these are at, say, Costco. Which is where many people shop. I'm never buying a Windows laptop, so it doesn't affect me, but I'm still the resident "family IT specialist". And I know, I just know I'm going to be asked lots of questions I don't have the patience for, as these poor bastards wonder why their computers are slow, all because the shitty OEM wanted to make a few cents off pre-installed…

Just do clean install. I always do it on friend's new laptops. 10 minutes. Saves lots of time later.

On Laptops this can actually be rather hard. Many manufacturers use somewhat odd drivers for their keyboards, trackpads, and other components.

I know what I am doing, and I still budget a good couple hours worst case to get all the drivers up and running again.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#237
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of issues? I've literally noticed no differences besides UI.

FWIW, 10.10.0 for me was perfect. 10.10.1 broke my wifi. Anytime the computer woke up from sleep, I'd have to reset the wifi card so it could find my access point. After 10.10.2 came out, I got my second-ever full computer lock-up. I've had the same OS image since 10.5 (migrated and upgraded multiple time, obviously) and this was the second time my computer required a hard reboot. And this was while watching a video…

>Linux is almost there. It's a crap shoot for me, unless it's running in a VM. I never know which kernel update will fix my trackpad/break my sound/wifi and which will fix the wifi, break suspend, fix sound, but break xrandr or some other archaic XWindows-related technology.

Apple could easily write fully functional Linux drivers for their hardware if they wanted to, but they choose not to.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Windows is out of the question after seeing what a factory OEM image comes with nowadays. Fair play. Research the manufacturer's policy if you're buying pre-built. If you build your own desktops, this is not an issue. >I'm not giving them money and spending 2 days formatting/reinstalling/seeking out drivers on slow Taiwanese servers just to make a half-usable computer. When's the last time you actually installed dri…

>Fair play. Research the manufacturer's policy if you're buying pre-built. If you build your own desktops, this is not an issue. I can build my own desktop, but I can't build my own laptop. I use laptops exclusively for work. >When's the last time you actually installed drivers on a fresh Windows install? Less than year ago on my girlfriend's VAIO laptop, actually. Windows 7. >Microsoft has made progress on supportin…

None of your complaints are about Windows. They're all, almost universally, about OEM and third-party shovelware. You want to avoid OEMs trashing your computer? Don't pretend this is about a lack of choice, or about Microsoft being stuck in the past. It's about you being ignorant of your options, or ignorant of the ecosystem. Buy a Signature Series machine from Microsoft.[1] No crapware, no bundled "features" or "trials". You can also go buy rebranded-Clevo-hardware built by one of their partnered system builders. These machines also aren't full of crapware, if you pick a decent system builder. Vizio, by the way, also refuse to fill their laptops with crapware. On the other hand, anyone who owns a music streaming service is going to bundle their music streaming service.

As for PDFs, Windows 8 and up come with a PDF viewer since, y'know, two and a half years ago when it was released. Did you miss that? Granted the default PDF viewer is a Modern App, but it works, and it works reasonably well. I use it regularly to dock a PDF on half of my monitor while I work on something else on the other side. Office, by the way, will read and write PDFs just fine, if you're after a more solid office-like product to do it. In case you're about to complain that Office is too pricey, LibreOffice will do the same. If an office-suite is not your speed, Sumatra PDF exists, and is free, open, has no bundling, and is available in a portable flavour.

Again, this is not Microsoft's fault. It is yours. No one is stuck in 1997 but you. You know what it requires to not be stuck in 1997? Any sort of intellectual curiosity at all.

> FUD? I deal with Windows issues from relatives on a weekly basis. What FUD? Am I imagining all of these issues? Spyware and adware infested boxes

See, you're doing it again. You're not dealing with "Windows issues", you're dealing with issues on Windows boxes, caused by non-Windows problems. These problems involve things like "my computer illiterate family really believed there was a Nigerian prince sending them email," they're not problems that Microsoft has introduced, and they're not problems that Microsoft CAN solve. Stupid people do stupid things, and one of those things is double-click PORNVIAGRA.EXE.

This annoys me so much because you are essentially arguing that problems caused by refusing to read are problems caused by operating systems, and this really isn't the case. This isn't something Apple has done a better job with either, it's just that the marketshare for Apple wasn't high enough for the malware vendors to bother with them. Notice how reports of Apple-specific shitware have increased in the past couple years with their marketshare? This should probably point out to you that it's not something that's solved by changing OS, it's solved by teaching your friends and family to be more tech-literate. You are arguing that the problem of pedestrians being hit by cars when they cross without looking will be solved if we just pad bumper of the cars enough. You want to try to find a technical solution to a human issue, which computers really aren't up to solving yet.

Don't get met wrong, there's stopgaps. There's services like http://unchecky.com/ which just uncheck all the checkboxes for you. Now you have checkboxes unchecked that you really need checked, and stuff doesn't get installed properly. There's still some reading required.

The point here, though, is that you're not an idiot. Your family aren't idiots. You're just all too lazy for your own good.

(As an aside, there's also valuable lesson in your post that Vaios are among the worst OEMs around. Don't buy Vaio.)

[1] http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/category...

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be even more fair, there's been a number of issues with Yosemite that make some of us want to stick with Mavericks. Just because something is free doesn't make it better.

Yep. JWZ used to say that Linux is only free if you don't value your time. OS X has many merits on this front, but since 10.3 I've found that the first few dot releases of OS X have the same caveats often enough (both in terms of bugs/hazards and in terms of gratuitous UI "progress") that it usually seems better to wait past .x.4/5. Now there's this, of course. Since the problem showed up in 2011, maybe I should go b…

> JWZ used to say that Linux is only free if you don't value your time.

My reply to that has always been that Windows is only $300 if you don't value your time. (Preserving archaic cost of Windows to match JWZ quote.)

The implication that the one system is free and time-consuming and the other moderately in price but not time-consuming is entirely false. At the time, for many requirements, configuring and administering a Windows machine would have been more time-consuming than for Linux. It's also glossing over the fact that you can't horizontally scale your $-per-cpu/server solution once you do have the configuration worked out, without going back to the well for more money.

This amusing and glib quote also deliberately glosses over the "freedom" part of free software, which is essential. For example, I wonder if Google would exist today if not for a free unix workalike.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#240

Of course this exploits XPC. I really hate all the desktop IPC bullshit. IPC frameworks are pure fucking evil. COM, D-Bus, XPC, everything SUCKS. If you want completely separate programs on one machine to talk, use UNIX domain sockets (with something like ZeroMQ or HTTP), FIFOs (named pipes), anything that you can chmod and chown, not a daemon that reinvents access control, badly.

Is this a systemd thread? This looks like a systemd thread!
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