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Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

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Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#181

Post by catern »

floatboth wrote: post #158

Of course this exploits XPC. I really hate all the desktop IPC bullshit. IPC frameworks are pure fucking evil. COM, D-Bus, XPC, everything SUCKS. If you want completely separate programs on one machine to talk, use UNIX domain sockets (with something like ZeroMQ or HTTP), FIFOs (named pipes), anything that you can chmod and chown, not a daemon that reinvents access control, badly.

Well, this is a very trivial "exploit" of XPC. The real problem is that such an API even exists at all. I mean, a method to create an arbitrary file in an arbitrary location with arbitrary attributes? That is completely braindead. That is clearly equivalent to root privileges, and therefore such an API shouldn't exist - sudo should be used instead, or other OS X methods of explicitly gaining root privileges.

This method wouldn't pass the most cursory of security checks. It's clear that it was never actually reviewed, and that the original programmer was relying on the proprietary nature of the OS X system for security. Something like this would never happen with Linux IPC - reviewing the methods published on dbus by services running as root by default is a basic check that any sane distro will do. Something as straightforwardly exploitable as this (literally just call the method while running as an admin user!) would never go in to Debian.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#182

Post by mattdotc »

PopsiclePete wrote: post #168
EC1 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of issues? I've literally noticed no differences besides UI.

FWIW, 10.10.0 for me was perfect. 10.10.1 broke my wifi. Anytime the computer woke up from sleep, I'd have to reset the wifi card so it could find my access point. After 10.10.2 came out, I got my second-ever full computer lock-up. I've had the same OS image since 10.5 (migrated and upgraded multiple time, obviously) and this was the second time my computer required a hard reboot. And this was while watching a video…

>Windows is out of the question after seeing what a factory OEM image comes with nowadays.

Fair play. Research the manufacturer's policy if you're buying pre-built. If you build your own desktops, this is not an issue.

>I'm not giving them money and spending 2 days formatting/reinstalling/seeking out drivers on slow Taiwanese servers just to make a half-usable computer.

When's the last time you actually installed drivers on a fresh Windows install? I will concede this used to be the case, but nowadays the whole process is much more streamlined. Microsoft has made progress on supporting a lot of hardware drivers via Windows Update. Intel also has a great driver update tool that will scan your system and make recommendations.

>And then, after all that, spend another 2 days installing various adware infested shitware to get a fricking PDF viewer.

2 days is rather exaggerated. Most browsers display PDF. If you absolutely need to read a PDF, Foxit Reader is free, as in beer. Yes, you'll have to uncheck some boxes to avoid their bundled software. Big deal.

>And don't get me started on getting a half-decent dev environment going. Ugh.

Yeah, windows isn't great for a lot of developers' needs. You really could have just left your argument at this rather than spouting off the rest of that FUD.

I use Linux, OS X, and Windows all on a regular basis. They have their strengths and weaknesses, like any other products.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#183

Post by jotux »

borgia wrote: post #143
po1nter wrote: post #69

OT but I have to say that the amount of Apple apologists in these comments is mind blowing. HN reader of all people should be the ones urging Apple to issue a fix for a very serious bug such as this one. Yet many comments here are saying that people should just upgrade while it might solve the problem for some, there are ones who can't upgrade machines at will.

>Yet many comments here are saying that people should just upgrade while it might solve the problem for some, there are ones who can't upgrade machines at will. It's dumbfounding how people here are simply shrugging this off and posting "So what? Just upgrade. Simples" type comments. This isn't acceptable. I know many people in creative industries alone who can't just upgrade immediately any time something comes out…

>It's dumbfounding how people here are simply shrugging this off and posting "So what? Just upgrade. Simples" type comments.

Zero people is dumbfounding to you? Because that's how many people are saying that.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#184

Post by kenferry »

floatboth wrote: post #158

Of course this exploits XPC. I really hate all the desktop IPC bullshit. IPC frameworks are pure fucking evil. COM, D-Bus, XPC, everything SUCKS. If you want completely separate programs on one machine to talk, use UNIX domain sockets (with something like ZeroMQ or HTTP), FIFOs (named pipes), anything that you can chmod and chown, not a daemon that reinvents access control, badly.

Hm? This wouldn't have been any better if implemented using sockets.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#185

Post by s_q_b »

danielweber wrote: post #22
diminoten wrote: post #16

> Apple indicated that this issue required a substantial amount of changes on their side, and that they will not back port the fix to 10.9.x and older. What ? So all OS X boxes are simply broken, privileges-wise, if they're not on 10.10?

Apple's model customer is one who upgrades often. If you want solid support for old products, stick with Microsoft, and accept that their products can be clunkier because of deliberate choices to maintain backwards-compatibility.

Or your IT department could force you to use a Golden Master of 10.9, and not let you update.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#187

Post by saurik »

mike_hearn wrote: post #68

Objective-C's "null pointer dereferences doesn't crash" behaviour rears its ugly horrible head again. Programs crash for a reason! Crashing when faced with nonsense is a good thing! Let us not forget this.

This is not considered "nonsense" in Objective-C is part of the issue: having "no receiver" do nothing is well defined behavior that has a long tradition at least back to Smalltalk. People use this to write shorter code, on purpose, causing an effect similar to Haskell's Maybe monad.

(Note: I, myself, do not ever rely on this functionality, and even disagree with it, but the context in which people use it is important to understand when judging it; and with that context, I consider my own objections mostly due to my biases and not something that I would argue is "correct".)

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#188

Post by jjarmoc »

jotux wrote: post #134
baldfat wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple's model customer is one who upgrades often. If you want solid support for old products, stick with Microsoft, and accept that their products can be clunkier because of deliberate choices to maintain backwards-compatibility. > To be fair, OS X updates are free and usually run well even on 5+ years old hardware. OS X has kinda gone the way of Chrome, with most users on the newest version. > While this is a sign…

Do you legitimately see these comments are being apologetic towards apple?

He seems to see anything that doesn't include pitchforks and torches as apologetic.

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#189

Post by mwfunk »

jotux wrote: post #179
baldfat wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be fair, OS X updates are free and usually run well even on 5+ years old hardware. OS X has kinda gone the way of Chrome, with most users on the newest version.

Which was a response to: >Apple's model customer is one who upgrades often. If you want solid support for old products, stick with Microsoft, and accept that their products can be clunkier because of deliberate choices to maintain backwards-compatibility. He was rebutting that regular upgrades are somehow a type of revenue to apple since they are free and work on some previous generation hardware. How is that apologe…

It sounds apologetic to him because he's more interested in tribalism than business or technology. It's not unlike much religious fundamentalism- the pursuit of truth takes a back seat to the pursuit of feeling like you're right about things, especially if it means you get to hate a caricature of some other group of people and blame some of your personal disappointments on them.

A similar force seems to drive politics, or at least motivates disturbingly huge blocs of voters. :(

Re: Hidden backdoor API to root privileges in Apple OS X

#190

Post by rewqfdsa »

po1nter wrote: post #69

OT but I have to say that the amount of Apple apologists in these comments is mind blowing. HN reader of all people should be the ones urging Apple to issue a fix for a very serious bug such as this one. Yet many comments here are saying that people should just upgrade while it might solve the problem for some, there are ones who can't upgrade machines at will.

po1nter,

We do not allow developers to criticize our revolutionary and beautiful platform. Good luck ever getting an app featured again.

- Apple

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