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Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

azure.microsoft.com

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Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#131

Post by ckozlowski »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #116
ckozlowski wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To build on this, containerized apps have less overhead than a full on virtual machine, since the binaries aren't replicated every time. Like, de-dupe for your VMs, to use a weak analogy. However, because they all share the same kernel, you're limited to a single flavor of containers per host. So a host can provide for all windows apps, or all linux apps, but not a mix. It makes the most sense when you have a need fo…

> So a host can provide for all windows apps, or all linux apps, but not a mix. While this is true I feel like at some point in the future we're going to be able to mix both. I've seen some rough ideas as to how it could happen but they sounded almost impossible to pull off. Still, if we had a way to mix containers it would be absolutely amazing.

It would be cool, but I can see a point of diminishing returns. If you kept it to say, two OS flavors or so, yeah, not bad. But the moment you go down that path, the abstraction needed to ensure both sets of binaries play correctly with the underlying hardware and still remain isolated and separate starts to eat into the overhead you were trying to save in the first place. It'd be cool to pull off, but I have to imagine that it'd be for niche applications.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#132

Post by bboreham »

CoreySanders wrote: post #54
shykes wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, via the Docker-native orchestration tools: Swarm [1] and Compose [2]. [1] https://docs.docker.com/swarm/ [2] https://docs.docker.com/compose/

Right on, Solomon. Here were some of the details on Azure and Windows Server support for Swarm and Compose (and Machine): http://azure.microsoft.com/blog/2015/02/26/sunny-and-swarmy-...

Am I confusing something? That looks like Linux guest support on a Windows Server host, which is rather different to the Windows Container topic of this thread.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#133

Post by Confusion »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #23
kirinan wrote: post #7

This will be what takes containers into the mainstream businesses. Companies may adopt docker or other instead of this, but Microsoft creating their own version of it means its a viable technology. Im more interested in the new frameworks and technologies that get adopted because of this than the fact that its in use. Traditional Java web projects that are hosted on Tomcat/JBoss don't run well inside containers but t…

Microsoft creating their own version means the technology is viable? I think people have been using 'the technology' for years, without any input from Microsoft. It doesn't need to be anointed by Microsoft to be 'viable'.

Microsoft creating their own version means it will be perceived as viable by many more people.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#134

Post by cbd1984 »

kirinan wrote: post #7

This will be what takes containers into the mainstream businesses. Companies may adopt docker or other instead of this, but Microsoft creating their own version of it means its a viable technology. Im more interested in the new frameworks and technologies that get adopted because of this than the fact that its in use. Traditional Java web projects that are hosted on Tomcat/JBoss don't run well inside containers but t…

It's been a viable technology ever since IBM started doing it in the 1960s, with VM.

Oh, wait. This isn't VM. This is something less-featureful than VM which will, possibly, eventually evolve into VM after a lot of hair-pulling. My mistake.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#135

Post by atomi »

jacques_chester wrote: post #107
atomi wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, if you want to run a Linux based Docker container on Windows you're still going to need Virtual Box.

> In other words, if you want to run a Linux based Docker container on Windows you're still going to need Virtual Box. Is this a surprise? Containerisation is not magical pixie dust -- it's a particular approach to implementation that is specific to the OS. You have a single kernel, and it follows that in general that single kernel will only allow corresponding containers to be run. That there will be a Docker server…

You have a good understanding of why this is the case. Hyper-V would be doing the job of Virtual Box and boot2docker which is what most developers have been using to run Docker daemon on non-linux hosts. I've tried the Hyper-V driver with Docker Machine and had some issues. So I'll be sticking with Virtual Box until that changes.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#136

Post by sudioStudio64 »

hueving wrote: post #122
emodendroket wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2006/03/22/55800... > In particular, if the solution begins with "First, install..." you've pretty much lost out of the gate. Solving a five-minute problem by taking a half hour to download and install a program is a net loss. In a corporate environment, adding a program to a deployment is extraordinarily expensive. You have to work with your company's legal team to make su…

The fud from Microsoft is interesting. They imply that by using open source, you can't get support for when you're company is losing money. Additionally, they imply that by using Microsoft, they will actually do something useful in this contrived situation losing thousands per day. Here's a hint, whichever solution is more complex is going to bite much harder from a downtime perspective, regardless of the underlying…

I actually don't hear FUD from MS about open source any more. I'm doing tests on my workstation of .net core and asp.net 5...all open source. Mark Russinovich said the other day that they are considering open sourcing Windows one day. They contribute to the Linux kernel. I can spin up a linux VM in azure with a powershell command. I don't know how much more friendly to open source they could be.

The article that was quoted and that you are talking about is an old article by Raymond Chen where he is talking about the importance and value of backwards compatibility. He's talking about the pain in the ass that large businesses face when trying to update the base image for a fleet of servers. I can tell you from personal experience that its a painful process.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#137

Post by emodendroket »

hueving wrote: post #122
emodendroket wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2006/03/22/55800... > In particular, if the solution begins with "First, install..." you've pretty much lost out of the gate. Solving a five-minute problem by taking a half hour to download and install a program is a net loss. In a corporate environment, adding a program to a deployment is extraordinarily expensive. You have to work with your company's legal team to make su…

The fud from Microsoft is interesting. They imply that by using open source, you can't get support for when you're company is losing money. Additionally, they imply that by using Microsoft, they will actually do something useful in this contrived situation losing thousands per day. Here's a hint, whichever solution is more complex is going to bite much harder from a downtime perspective, regardless of the underlying…

That's a personal blog, not some official Microsoft thing. I think that, regardless of the source, it's an important point -- at a really big environment it's hard to introduce new software packages for nontechnical reasons (like the licensing stuff) and for technical ones too (gazillions of machines with different configurations you have to worry about breaking). I've been a system administrator at a small place and even then it's not fun to try to roll out something like that.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#138

Post by emodendroket »

rbanffy wrote: post #118
emodendroket wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagining they had first-class support for it (a major undertaking, I'd guess, but anyway) how many people would use it? I'd guess it'd be about the same people who use Cygwin now.

Anyone porting applications from Linux would be able to use it to reduce the effort.

Yes, but I think Microsoft's ultimate concern is how many people will want to use such applications. How many will? Think about how few people run, say, PHP applications under Windows. Even though it's possible. (Well, actually, often it won't work right because PHP developers don't bother to test with anything besides Linux)

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#139

Post by merb »

emodendroket wrote: post #137
hueving wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fud from Microsoft is interesting. They imply that by using open source, you can't get support for when you're company is losing money. Additionally, they imply that by using Microsoft, they will actually do something useful in this contrived situation losing thousands per day. Here's a hint, whichever solution is more complex is going to bite much harder from a downtime perspective, regardless of the underlying…

That's a personal blog, not some official Microsoft thing. I think that, regardless of the source, it's an important point -- at a really big environment it's hard to introduce new software packages for nontechnical reasons (like the licensing stuff) and for technical ones too (gazillions of machines with different configurations you have to worry about breaking). I've been a system administrator at a small place and…

wow. in which world do you live? since puppet, its really easy to update fleets of machines. and the tools even emerged. new software could be upgraded easily, as long you have a valid license or if it is handled by a "free" license.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#140

Post by drchickensalad »

reitanqild wrote: post #127
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you apply security updates to the dependencies?

To update on this since I am a Java programmer who is picking up c again after 10 years: In modern Java world people often maven or another project tool where upgrading a library is as simple as changing the version number in a "pom" file, push and wait for Jenkins to finish build, unit and integration tests. Not kidding here, this is one of the things I love about Java development.

This is literally every ecosystem except classical c and c++.
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