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Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

azure.microsoft.com

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Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#101

Post by motoboi »

guelo wrote: post #92
kolencherry wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the TechNet Announcement: "we removed the GUI stack, 32 bit support (WOW64), MSI and a number of default Server Core components. There is no local logon or Remote Desktop support. All management is performed remotely via WMI and PowerShell. We are also adding Windows Server Roles and Features using Features on Demand and DISM. We are improving remote manageability via PowerShell with Desired State Configuration…

> All management is performed remotely Wow, I've been out of the Windows world for years, can you really fully manage a Windows box without the GUI?

No. But you can use your machine to run the tools which will connect to the server. You can do this with desktops, not only windows server. Try Computer Management on your machine.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#102

Post by johngossman »

pweissbrod wrote: post #89
kirinan wrote: post #7

This will be what takes containers into the mainstream businesses. Companies may adopt docker or other instead of this, but Microsoft creating their own version of it means its a viable technology. Im more interested in the new frameworks and technologies that get adopted because of this than the fact that its in use. Traditional Java web projects that are hosted on Tomcat/JBoss don't run well inside containers but t…

At first I was like :D Then I was like :( App containers are SORELY needed in microsoft ecosystem. But whats up with the HyperV vendor lock-in? Looks like to those of us already investing in vmware or EC2 etc get the shaft...

Windows Server Containers will absolutely work in other hypervisors. You need to be running Windows as a guest OS obviously.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#104

Post by eldavido »

dordoka wrote: post #24
kirinan wrote: post #7

This will be what takes containers into the mainstream businesses. Companies may adopt docker or other instead of this, but Microsoft creating their own version of it means its a viable technology. Im more interested in the new frameworks and technologies that get adopted because of this than the fact that its in use. Traditional Java web projects that are hosted on Tomcat/JBoss don't run well inside containers but t…

Could you please explain what kind of issues did you find running tomcat/jboss inside containers? We've been running several apps on docker and so far no problem. Thanks a lot in advance.

Just worked on deploying OpenAM on tomcat with Docker. A few things stuck out to validate the "hard to deploy in containers" point:

(1) node.js/Ruby/Python scale with processes, not threads. There's no supervisory/control environment over the processes, just the OS. JVM on the other hand expects to do a lot more process/thread control itself so it's kind of another "layer" between the OS and your code.

(2) Port binding doesn't work the same way, either. Most of our dockerized services have one port/process with simple load balancing built into our "routing fabric", which is something ops controls at my company. My understanding of JVM scaleout is that the servlet container is responsible for multiplexing incoming connections onto free capacity, which isn't how most docker shops work.

(3) I'm not sure what the typical deployment patterns are for servlet containers but they seem more multi-tenant w.r.t # of applications running in them, vs. a typical docker setup where containers are very thin and meant to be run in the dozens or more per-machine.

It's not that the JVM is inherently inferior, more than Docker has grown up around unix/linux ops-minded folks and they're bringing a lot of their assumptions about how software should be deployed and operated (e.g. "things should be scriptable") with them, and that their thinking is dominant among the current container-using crowd.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#105

Post by eldavido »

johngossman wrote: post #102
pweissbrod wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I was like :D Then I was like :( App containers are SORELY needed in microsoft ecosystem. But whats up with the HyperV vendor lock-in? Looks like to those of us already investing in vmware or EC2 etc get the shaft...

Windows Server Containers will absolutely work in other hypervisors. You need to be running Windows as a guest OS obviously.

Hi John

Former-MS guy here working in SV. I could tell you work at MS by some of the terms you use which aren't common outside the company (e.g. "SKU") but MS people say a lot ;)

You should set up your profile on HN so that people know you're an MS guy and write a bit about yourself. I would email you directly, but your profile is blank.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#106

Post by brown9-2 »

eldavido wrote: post #104
dordoka wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please explain what kind of issues did you find running tomcat/jboss inside containers? We've been running several apps on docker and so far no problem. Thanks a lot in advance.

Just worked on deploying OpenAM on tomcat with Docker. A few things stuck out to validate the "hard to deploy in containers" point: (1) node.js/Ruby/Python scale with processes, not threads. There's no supervisory/control environment over the processes, just the OS. JVM on the other hand expects to do a lot more process/thread control itself so it's kind of another "layer" between the OS and your code. (2) Port bindi…

My understanding of JVM scaleout is that the servlet container is responsible for multiplexing incoming connections onto free capacity, which isn't how most docker shops work.

No, not really, typically you would just run N of your JVM processes with either some sort of load balancer (or your "routing fabric") to balance between them or a discovery mechanism.

I think you might be referring to some sort of big-box "enterprise" servlet container like Websphere or something quite different than Tomcat.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#107

Post by jacques_chester »

atomi wrote: post #71
johngossman wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to clarify. We are talking about 3 things: 1) OS virtualization for Windows. We announced this last year: http://azure.microsoft.com/blog/2014/10/15/new-windows-serve... 2) Nano Server -- A small Windows Server sku. Perfect for containers, but also useful for other scenarios where you need a small, cloud optimized Windows 3) Hyper-V Containers -- Think if you wanted to optimize a hypervisor with assumption tha…

In other words, if you want to run a Linux based Docker container on Windows you're still going to need Virtual Box.

> In other words, if you want to run a Linux based Docker container on Windows you're still going to need Virtual Box.

Is this a surprise?

Containerisation is not magical pixie dust -- it's a particular approach to implementation that is specific to the OS. You have a single kernel, and it follows that in general that single kernel will only allow corresponding containers to be run.

That there will be a Docker server backend that can speak Hyper-V doesn't magically make a Windows kernel into a Linux kernel, or vice versa.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#108

Post by jacques_chester »

m_mueller wrote: post #103

Will this technology allow running a POSIX kernel alongside like in a VM? Or will these Containers be limited to Windows server software?

Containerisation is a new term for OS-level virtualisation.

So in a current meaning of virtualisation, no. It will not let you put a Linux container on a Windows kernel.

You could run a VM on Hyper-V VMs, and presumably it will respond to the Docker API, but that just means it's a VM.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#109

Post by jacques_chester »

tdicola wrote: post #2

Looking forward to hearing more detail about how this works in the near future. I am curious though what are the plans to orchestrate and pull together multiple containers into an application, like Kubernetes, Mesos, CoreOS, etc? Is that coming in the Win 10 timeframe?

If you want a full PaaS, Cloud Foundry is currently implementing .NET app support as well.

Disclaimer: I work for Pivotal Labs, which is part of Pivotal, the main contributor to Cloud Foundry.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#110

Post by jacques_chester »

O____________O wrote: post #13

Leveraging our deep virtualization experience, Microsoft will now offer containers with a new level of isolation previously reserved only for fully dedicated physical or virtual machines Uh. I don't understand how that sentence has any meaning. Particularly the "a new level of isolation previously reserved only for fully dedicated physical or virtual machines" bit. I mean, isn't that what a container is , a virtual m…

I recently gave a talk about the relationships between VMs and containers: http://original.livestream.com/pivotallabs/video?clipId=pla_...
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