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I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

roadlesstravelled.me

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Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#82
post #7

Another perfect data point to add to Michael O`Church`s excellent series on the politics and psychology of the modern corporation. For you starry eyed youngsters, just remember that this is Apple, the world`s most profitable company. It only gets worse as you go down the list. Work for yourself. Consulting, the trades and any type of work you can do independently is far superior to dealing with wannabe Machiavellians…

Whoa whoa. Consulting isn't the answer. There are plenty of opportunities in both private and public sector on awesome teams with amazing management.

Consulting is just a different beast.

You get a lot more freedom and typically a higher pay, but sometimes management uses consultants to be the fall guys or hires consultants to confirm their existing decisions. It takes a lot of business savvy (read: empathy) to understand why you're really being hired as a consultant.

I don't think OP here would be happy consulting. (Just my 2 cents.)

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#83
Toxic management in Silicon valley seems to be becoming a force to be reckoned with. Time and time again I hear horror stories like this and from first hand experience I can confirm all this mind playing is in fact happening by certain managers. I've worked with managers that worked at top tech companies in the Valley and their resume lists one company after another, it goes to show how easy it is for them to jump ship if things are going sour without anyone at the new company really noticing that in the interview process. There seems to be a strongly connected network of toxic managers swarming the valley more and more. It's not just Apple.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An adept representation of a limited sample of the issues surrounding customer support and similar departments. The problem is that it doesn't have to be like this. There are exceptional cases where customer support is not like this. Many of them have gained considerable benefit from investing in their customer support. One source of difficulty is that evaluation of those benefits requires very complicated (for an av…

Do you, by chance, have a list of those exceptional cases? I'd love to learn more! edit: thanks everyone for these replies they're great, keep them coming!

Apple is actually probably the best example of a company taking a cost center (in this case, manufacturing and logistics) and turning it into a strategic advantage. Apple wields its supply chain like a weapon. It's very difficult to compete with Apple because the world has a limited supply of high-quality parts (flash memory, LCD screens, etc.), and Apple can just outbid everyone else for the entire market supply for 6 months at a time and still make a profit thanks to their fat margins and high volumes. They've done the same thing with advanced manufacturing robots, and likely again with the metallurgy and large-scale 6-axis CNC manufacturing tools. The manufacturers of these devices can only make so many of them per year, and Apple just buys all of them. By the time the market catches up, Apple has moved on to monopolizing another factor of production for some new manufacturing process.

This is why Tim Cook is CEO: he was the architect of their supply chain strategy which basically ensured nobody could build a phone at the same level as Apple. But he took what was once a pure cost center for Apple and turned it into the engine of their dominance.

I can't say I've seen the same for customer support though. It's just not a strategic advantage in most industries because only a small percentage of your customers ever call in to support in the first place.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#85
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crunch time is fine when its uncommon and unforseen. Otherwise it is a manag3ment failure. Perhaps its deliberate failure to respect peoples personal life, but that's still a failure. I've worked plenty of places where crunch time is uncommon or nonexistent. It doesn't have to be that way.

If staff are consistently having to work overtime to hit targets then there's either: - A problem with the staff - there's either not enough of them or they haven't the skills to do what is required or - A problem with the management. I've never worked in a role where incompetent people were hired and couldn't get what needed to be done done, but I've worked under plenty of incompetent management.

Even the first option is a problem with management. They either need to hire more people, fire people, or train people.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#86

Is this for real? Can anyone else corroborate this?

Certainly you hear a fair bit about Apple as a high-pressure work environment. Long hours, lots of paranoia -- though by "paranoia" I'm specifically thinking of developers, and not revealing anything Apple might be working on that isn't publicly known yet. Well, and related things like tracking what buildings you enter by your badge, access to specific labs, etc. Stuff to make sure people don't know more than they sh…

This discussion, on top of everything I know, is making me think Apple is the bastard spawn of the DOD and a futurist cult.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#87

I've found it is easy to poach talent from Apple, Google, and other large ventures. It's not the money. It's the vision and the way they treat talent. They don't pay much deference to the consummate creators, the lifeblood of innovation. Long hours, synchronous work schedules with asynchronous dependencies, long commutes, and not an equal pay to warrant education level and mental capacity required for task at hand. I…

I definitely think the "startup life" culture is something a lot of people will eventually consider a downside. I recently interviewed at a place with an open floor plan, and I found that a big turn off to the position. While free lunch and dinner are nice perks, sure, they also suggest you're still at work for lunch and dinner. I want a job, not an overly-attached workplace.

The best jobs I've found are at smallish companies with reasonable chance of growing revenues that are just past the startup phase, and over the initial politics that comes from growing. They have enough job security to make it comfortable but still have the opportunity for a person to make significant impact, and usually a mixture of legacy and new project code base. Some technical debt to fix from the startup-sprint phase.

I've worked at net-new startups, very large companies, and companies like I've described above. I miss the comraderie of a team under a dozen people making good progress and with everyone able to make good impact without being a superstar.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#88
post #24

But... the author worked in customer support, managing agents. Customer support in any company is like this: it's full of bobblehead managers who make work to justify their own jobs. It's a cost center, and cost centers are where you put executives who are capable, but not exceptional. This is why OP has stories about how firing people was considered heroic -- when you work in a cost center, the only thing the busine…

I'd argue that this mentality is a byproduct of the concept of a "cost center" which is itself an arbitrary and toxic concept.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#89
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Usually home by 8 or 9pm I assume they got into work at 8 or 9am? That's terrible. I'm really glad that I work a standard 8 hour day at my small no-name company.

More like 10 or 11. Most of my friends are late-risers (perhaps because I'm a late-riser), and Google doesn't have set hours. People have been known to roll into work around 2:30 PM as long as they get their work done.

... Not to mention that you can easily spend 2-3 or more hours of your day eating lunch/dinner/pingpong/making coffee/dance classes/gym/etc.

Re: I Quit: What really goes on at Apple

#90

In "Becoming Steve Jobs", Tim Cook says the following in regards to Apple's collusion scandal: "I know where Steve's head was. He wasn't doing anything to hold down salaries; it never came up. He had a simple objective: if we were working together on something, like with Intel, where we threw everything in the middle of the table and said, 'let's convert the Mac to the Intel processor', well, when we did that, we did…

Maybe its Dunbar's number. These executives know and interact with so many people that perhaps its quite difficult for their minds to see their employees as people.

But then, I've seen that attitude in startups. The passion for the company as a whole trumps everything so the people are easily disposable to them. Which, as in so many other areas of life, is completely backwards from what they perceive as logical.

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