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Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically, comparison causes conflict, conflict causes anxiety, anxiety causes fear, and fear makes mind dull. Unfortunately, I can report that I have done all of my best work in my career when I was extraordinarily anxious, feeling like I was holding to the side of the cliff with just my fingernails. Whenever things have started to get too comfortable, I found that hubris has disrupted my successes. It's a sad tho…

The question is not really what the "natural state" for humanity is to be happy, but what would you choose? Would you rather be happy or productive?

Producing a happiness revolution would be the most productive thing I can imagine and being happy is a good first step.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically, comparison causes conflict, conflict causes anxiety, anxiety causes fear, and fear makes mind dull. Unfortunately, I can report that I have done all of my best work in my career when I was extraordinarily anxious, feeling like I was holding to the side of the cliff with just my fingernails. Whenever things have started to get too comfortable, I found that hubris has disrupted my successes. It's a sad tho…

>I see absolutely no reason to believe that the natural state of humanity is to be happy (or, more specifically, content) What about the fact that stress is tremendously destructive to our health? It is directly a threat to the survival of both individuals and the societies they live in. If being in an anxious state for extensive periods of time were the most advantageous to survival, then evolution seems not to have…

Fear is biologically advantageous in moderation. Without fear (anxiety, stress, etc) you would have not lived past infancy.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#363
post #64

> It's been getting better. It's not, it's getting worse. You are in a cycle of slave-driving yourself. You remind me of Jiddu Krishnamurthi's assertion that "Influence acts strongest when you don't realize that it is acting". I would venture that most of your accomplishments are a result of being told what you should do, what you should be. You will NEVER have the energy that the people whom you compare with have. B…

OP here. Believe me when I say that there's nothing more I'd rather do than what I'm doing right now. Not even in question. I love programming, I love the project I'm working on, and I love the ideas that are waiting to be worked on in my future. My heart fills with joy when I think about holding those finished products in my hands. When I get into the flow, I can zone out for days and work on my projects with hardly…

Is that tendency toward idleness punctuated with productive spurts actually a weakness? I would hold that it is actually the appropriate situation in many respects, and that our society simply hasn't adapted to account for it yet. One of the only physical characteristics that humans have going for them compared to other animals is their physical endurance. We're built for long stretches of physical work. We are not, however, built for long stretches of intellectual work. Economically speaking it also makes sense. While a worker performing physical tasks establishes a level of productivity and remains mostly constant, an intellectual worker multiplies the productivity of others tremendously. They change the nature of the work being done. Economically, at least in a capitalist system, this is supposed to result in those intellectual workers seeing their compensation rise tremendously as well - providing them with the resources to take long breaks allowing them time for contemplation, improvement of their skills, etc. Were it not for the illegal actions of major tech companies early in the growth of the software field, we might see compensation related to the value intellectual workers produce. As it is, they set the standards for what such workers should be paid and divorced it completely from the value of the work being performed.

This has happened before, back during the Industrial Revolution. Factories and mechanical automation enabled workers to leap in productivity over their craftsmen predecessors, and factory owners divorced their compensation from the value of the work. Eventually, whole families had to work extremely long hours 6 or 7 days a week just to be able to afford to eat. Society let this happen because they saw the workers as not deserving of a share of the value they were creating because 'a machine was really doing the work and the owner paid for the machine'. Things eventually reached a breaking point and society forced factory owners to pay a single person enough to raise an entire family on for 40 hours of work in a week. This was a monumental change. Whereas previously about 3 incomes with each working 60+ hours a week was necessary to raise a family, 1 income from 40 hours reaching the same amount was not a minor adjustment.

Social change takes time. Mental workers being a large group is really quite new, and society hasn't yet figured out how to handle them best. They're trying to just treat them the same as physical workers, which will inevitably fail simply because the human brain is not built for decades of constant mental work.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#364
I share a similar fear. I am a 25 year old dev. I have a bachelors degree in comp sci from a large state school. I have an internship plus an additional year of experience under my belt. I am constantly aware of the age of my competitors. I constantly feel as though I am behind the curve. I am always been told that I am too young to worry about such things, but I feel as though people don't understand my industry. My fears are not substantiated by my experience. I have had no trouble finding employment. I have been coding since the age of 12 and truly love the profession. I have a strong desire to succeed. I love the industry. However, I feel as though the constant comparison is hindering me mentally.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we've reached that place where narcissism and self-preservation bump directly into humility and empathy, and have found that its not quite the pristine landscape we might have imagined. Certainly, my kids are a lot of work - but they're better than anything I've ever done, ever. That's hard to communicate to someone who doesn't live that way.

Why? I honestly don't understand this. You stuck your penis in someone (assuming you are male). That's all you did. And then did all the exact same things that billions of other parents do, feed, burp, clothe, ship 'em off to be educated by someone else. Statistically speaking, you're probably not a fantastic parent, just another average Dad. One of literally billions of parents. So why are your kids 'better' than an…

It's not about comparing yourself to others. He's not saying "My kids are the best thing anybody has ever done." It's kind of like training for a marathon, in a way that they aren't quite the same, but let's go with it. You train hard and often, you spend hours and hours on just preparing for it, and when the race comes you suffer, push yourself, sweat and bleed, and finish. 1000th place! But you still feel great, you still feel accomplishment, it's a heady feeling.

You can say "So what, all you did was run 26 miles, lots of people do that, some even run hundreds, or walk cross country, what you did isn't that special."

Well, yeah, it's not, but that doesn't mean it doesn't feel good to look at your accomplishments and feel awe that you completed it.

It's like that with kids. You pass off the whole raising them with "feed, burp, clothe, ship 'em off to be educated by someone else" which is just sad and insulting. You gloss over the sleep deprivation, the worry that wake you up in the middle of the night, the laughter and tears of the kids, and parents teach kids more than you give them credit for.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#366
It's a bit late in the thread, but I hope you read this. Maybe you should try LSD, just once. Sometimes, for some people, it allows them to reflect deeply on what actually makes them happy, and allows them to then live their life under the guidance of their own happiness, rather than focusing on comparisons to others, and what others think of them. I've seen this first-hand more than once. It's a long-lasting, deeply profound mental realization that can potentially change your life for the better.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#367
It sounds like the problem you have is with your ego. You're portraying yourself as someone you aren't, or someone you haven't become yet.

Your ego is handicapping you from doing anything. Throw it away. Stop comparing yourself to others. And just work and be the best you can be.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#369
post #339
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The narrative of luck makes people feel less bad about their lack of fortitude. Contrary to whatever you think 'chance' plays a huge role in every one's success. When luck meets hard work, the returns compound. When hard work meets back luck, a person feels they were treated unfairly.But chance matters in a way far more than you realize. Heck, a Human is born out of sheer luck. People don't realize how important lu…

But the thing is that without hard work, you can have all the luck in the world and nothing is going to happen. And it also seems that the people who work harder have more luck for various reasons raging from having more opportunities come their way to seizing opportunities better. Ultimately, I think, the kind of luck that matters most is the lack of bad luck . You can be the hardest working person in the world, but…

"But the thing is that without hard work, you can have all the luck in the world and nothing is going to happen."

Unfortunately that's not true. People will the lottery every week. In business that happens too. Look at all the well funded startups which never amount to anything, and factor in the prestige, earnings and opportunity those companies afford their participants. Plenty of people are early employees of hot startups simply via friendships and connections. Many of them leave or are fired. Many of those people become vastly wealthy.

Moreover look at all the one-hit wonders and luck is an even greater factor. If people who are smart, talented and able can reproduce their success why are they so rare? When someone never manages to get close to their initial success lack is often in play. It's not that they weren't clever, or didn't work hard, but it can be that luck picked them from a field of very similar people.

That shouldn't of course change your behavior. Luck is beyond our locus of control and planning for it, or around it, is like planning around a potential meteorite strike, or rain.

Anything you can force via effort isn't luck which is why people get confused. You can achieve against the odds via hard work alone which is why working hard is worthwhile.

You can also scale your success. The difference between making a living, making a million and being Mark Zuckerberg can all be attracted to work and wit without the need to factor luck into the equation at all.

Finally we're all focused on good-luck. Bad luck is the real enemy. To be diagnosed with a serious illness, or to be unable to take an opportunity due to factors you cannot effect will cut the legs out from underneath you however hard you work. Sometimes your good luck is invisible unless you're aware of the bad luck of those who'd otherwise take your place.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#370
Sounds like you`re trying to peg a square peg into a round hole.

We all want to be Tony Stark. A captain of industry, successful philanthropist and daring philanderer.

The truth is, this is about as realistic an outcome as winning the lottery. Doesn`t stop hordes of people from becoming addicted to the possibility and wasting their time and money on that impossible outcome.

Stop fantasizing about becoming Tony Stark, and start living your own life. Maybe programming doesn`t really make you happy, and its just a means to an end. That`s perfectly fine. Find a position with solid work life balance that allows you to enjoy your life outside of work.

The HN crowd tends to idolize a tiny sliver of programmers who enjoy writing code for the sake of it. I know very, very few people who can`t think of anything better to do with their free time than to write code. For most of us, its just a trade that pays well and is somewhat enjoyable. It`s a means to an end.

Sure, we can fantasize about building the next PayPal, but in all honesty there`s plenty to enjoy in life without having a net worth in the billions.

Stop measuring yourself using absurd metrics. You`re falling into the trap of an internet world. It would be like comparing yourself to the King of England a few hundred years ago. Unrealistic and absurd.

The world is not meritocratic, and it sure as hell isn`t equal opportunity. You`re alive, you`re healthy, and you`re relatively smart. Enjoy that while it lasts, and fuck the rest.

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