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Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 48. More productive in the past ten years than ever before. I used to feel the way you do, in my twenties. A lot of it was just jockeying for position among a group of high-achiever friends--trying to be the alpha in a group of alphas--and some of it was having been the big fish in the small pond of my immediate peers and finally being thrown into the big pond. But none of that really matters. Don't plan for the…

>> But we all start back at 0 when we do something new. We progress faster the second and further times around. Great comment. It alludes to 'iterating on yourself'. It's difficult when you feel like you're competing with others, rather than working to satisfy your own essential self.

Ditto to Rickcusick's call out. This is one of my favorite insights on this thread.

There are so many moments in life where we have to start back at zero. I like to think about the Teddy Roosevelt "Man in the Arena" speech when I'm back at a "0":

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#282
Sigh. I'm so sorry you feel this way. My demons are different but I often feel the same intolerance for them. There is a very harsh and critical voice in you. In these cases I ask myself, whose voice is this? How did this develop?

You can't accomplish anything with a conflicted, unfocused mind. Without kindness to yourself, you can't be healthy enough to be productive. If you want to unlock the stamina and inspiration to build the life you're aspiring towards, you need to understand yourself and your mind and how you work and how to make it work. It sounds like you're trying to dictate when maybe a listening and trial/error approach with a kinder and gentler disposition would be more effective.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#283
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our society frowns on people who set out to do really good work. You're not supposed to; luck is supposed to descend on you and you do great things by chance. This is so true. It's odd that we celebrate butterflies and crush caterpillars. I think it was Les Brown who said something along the lines of– if you want to achieve uncommon, unreasonable results, you have to be an uncommon, unreasonable person putting in u…

Our society loves people who set out to do really good work. But only after they succeed. The whole "luck descended upon them" is a coping strategy. The narrative of luck makes people feel less bad about their lack of fortitude.

Here's some "luck" for you:

  25% of all new businesses fail within the first year.
  36% fail before their second anniversary.
  44% fail before the end of the third year.
  ----
  46% fail due to incompetence.
  30% fail due to inexperience.
  11% fail due to lack of domain knowledge.
(stats taken from http://www.statisticbrain.com/startup-failure-by-industry/ )

As the years pass, the conditional probability that the new business will fail in the next year, given that it did not fail in the previous year, tapers off. The competence has been tested. The inexperience vanishes. The domain knowledge becomes less something you acquire from elsewhere and more something you make from within.

From the statistics, it looks like an awful lot of people are making uninformed guesses, out of their early incompetence or inexperience, and incorrect guesses destroy their business. That does not look like fortitude to me. It looks like walking your very first tightrope, never having had the benefit of even seeing another person cross one, over a pit of starving grizzly bears, as the people who have already crossed laugh at you and throw rocks at your head.

Those who already fell into the pit and managed to climb back out for another try have fortitude. But they also didn't get eaten. That's lucky.

It is unkind to say that those who never make the attempt lack fortitude. Perhaps they simply have an aversion to being chased down and eaten by ravenous bears. Or maybe they were born in the pit, and never got far enough ahead of the bears to try to climb up to the ropes.

But that does not address the question that should be on everyone's mind with respect to this analogy. Why do those people on the other side of the pit throw their rocks at the people on the ropes, instead of at the bears in the pit? Why is it necessary that starting a business be both radically unfamiliar and incredibly risky?

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#284
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, I wouldn't call what you describe "ambition", but rather "need for self-validation". Ambition is desire and determination of achieving something, whereas challenge, pressure and responsibility just seem masochistic. Where's the end goal? The problem here, in my opinion, is that the "default" goals one sees in the "start-up culture" (or the banking culture, that I'm better familiar with) are bland, spoo…

^Yes. You don't describe yourself as ambitious, you reveal it through your actions. How you prioritize. How you manage your limited time and resources. It's weird to say "I am ambitious and I waste time vegging out watching TV" in the same breath– chances are the "I am ambitious" statement is really identity performance. OP wants to be seen as ambitious (not just by his others, but by himself as well). It's a comfort…

Well, in some sense the exact opposite is true...

If he weren't ambitious, then watching TV wouldn't be a waste of time. It would just be something he enjoys doing. The fact that he has some ambition is what causes him to feel guilty when he's not being productive. No ambition, no guilt.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#285
Dude I'm 33. I didn't even own a computer until my late teens. You can't compare yourself to people who had a different upbringing and a different time. Even 3 years difference is a life time in terms of technological advances.

Just do what you can do and don't be so hard on yourself.

I'm 33 and am a CTO at a seed funded startup doing node and react. And I've only been 100% JS for about 4 years. (c++ before that)

Just do what you want and don't worry. Even if you just want to watch netflix now and then. :)

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#286
post #64

> It's been getting better. It's not, it's getting worse. You are in a cycle of slave-driving yourself. You remind me of Jiddu Krishnamurthi's assertion that "Influence acts strongest when you don't realize that it is acting". I would venture that most of your accomplishments are a result of being told what you should do, what you should be. You will NEVER have the energy that the people whom you compare with have. B…

Damn. I wish I could save this comment. Beautiful advice.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#287
This is something I've worried about for a while, and ultimately I've come to the conclusion that as cool as these hotshot young people are, being one of them would go against my basic personality.

Y'see, I'm a fundamentally uncreative person. I'm not the kind of person who will come up with a project idea and build an app from nothing. That's not me. On the other hand, you tell me you want me to build something for you, and I'll build you a damn good piece of software.

I've always been a more "behind-the-scenes" person. I'm the grunt whose hard work in the background enables the superstars to go out and do their thing. And I've found that I _enjoy_ that. It gives me a lot of personal pleasure to help and support people, especially people who I feel deserve my support. I've realized that I'd be much happier being the kingmaker than being the king. I guess this is why I'm more drawn to systems programming: it's behind-the-scenes supporting work, suitable for a behind-the-scenes supporting person.

I could also get into Myers-Briggs typology here. I'm fairly sure I'm an ISFJ, and what I've described is very, very ISFJ. Though I've got a bit of an INTP streak too (both types share the same cognitive functions, just in a different order, so I'd say my INTP streak is mostly a case of my weaker functions "flaring up"), and that accounts for my interest in systems architecture.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#288
One technical aspect you didn't consider:

The work you wish you'd done sooner (1 to 6 years ago), would have been done with that year's tech. Starting an app 6 years ago, whatever idea, would have been harder to do. Early versions of mature frameworks we enjoy now weren't as easy to deal with. In the last few years things have gotten much faster.

It's easy to see how easy work is to do today and look back and say, "If only I had those lost years!" but that's not the case, that work would have been different by it's nature, due to the tech.

If only you'd started your app 15 years ago! You could have gone through the fresh hell of flash, php, hand writing deployment and basically being a sysadmin!

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#289
I have had a similar kind of issue my whole life as well. Being ambitious at the core but actions not being representative of how I think. And though I haven't figured it all out, I have improved massively from earlier. What helped was an understanding of how subtle anxiety affects me. Initially, at the age of 26 (30 now), if someone told me it was anxiety I would have told them no, but over time (with lot's of mediation) I began to realize that it is a very subtle, subconscious anxiety that makes is significantly harder to do anything that has a result riding on it.

To test if this is your problem, look back at things that are difficult but didn't have a expectation or result riding on them. Say you created a small app or read up on a complex topic and understood it well. If you are able to do difficult things that don't have expectations but are not able to similarly difficult (or even easy things) that do have an expectation it is probably an issue of anxiety.

If this is your problem, I would recommend the book The Now Habit. Also, start mindfulness meditation if you can.

Hope this helps.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP here. Believe me when I say that there's nothing more I'd rather do than what I'm doing right now. Not even in question. I love programming, I love the project I'm working on, and I love the ideas that are waiting to be worked on in my future. My heart fills with joy when I think about holding those finished products in my hands. When I get into the flow, I can zone out for days and work on my projects with hardly…

> If you're depressed or socially anxious, you wouldn't just accept these as the way you are, would you? Have you considered that you might have an anxiety problem? You mention being crippled by fear. You mention a constant gnawing. You mention a daily rehearsal of a major anxiety, your always feeling behind, frequently feeling exhausted and terrified, an endless state of panic, and being endlessly haunted. That is a…

This. Happy to talk in private about my experience with anxiety and procrastination. "Find a therapist you like" is great advice: it may take a couple tries. Good luck!
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