Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

news.ycombinator.com

271–280 of 426 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#271
post #64

> It's been getting better. It's not, it's getting worse. You are in a cycle of slave-driving yourself. You remind me of Jiddu Krishnamurthi's assertion that "Influence acts strongest when you don't realize that it is acting". I would venture that most of your accomplishments are a result of being told what you should do, what you should be. You will NEVER have the energy that the people whom you compare with have. B…

OP here. Believe me when I say that there's nothing more I'd rather do than what I'm doing right now. Not even in question. I love programming, I love the project I'm working on, and I love the ideas that are waiting to be worked on in my future. My heart fills with joy when I think about holding those finished products in my hands. When I get into the flow, I can zone out for days and work on my projects with hardly…

You need to read The War of Art.

> “Most of us have two lives. The life we live, and the unlived life within us. Between the two stands Resistance.”

> “Every sun casts a shadow, and genius's shadow is Resistance. As powerful as is our soul's call to realization, so potent are the forces of Resistance arrayed against it. Resistance is faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, harder to kick than crack cocaine. We're not alone if we've been mowed down by Resistance; millions of good men and women have bitten the dust before us. And here's the biggest bitch: We don't even know what hit us. I never did. From age twenty-four to thirty-two, Resistance kicked my ass from East Coast to West and back again thirteen times and I never even knew it existed. I looked everywhere for the enemy and failed to see it right in front of my face.”

That book is a treasure trove in how to change your thinking and defeat this. But it does require changing your thinking and a great deal of discipline.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#272
Do some ops stuff in your free time. Setup an awesome VPN with a jumpbox. Setup a MySQL/LAMP cluster. Put an nginx server in front of it. Replicate the databases properly. Setup iptables properly and script the configurations so you can deploy new boxes.

I did this for a while and it really helped to motivate me because it was different type of work, but it puts you in a position where literally all you have to do is write the code. You have a production stack, a launch pad so to speak, everythings nice and pretty, now all you have to do is build a rocket. Don't try to build a fantastic one on the first iteration, just do it. I find using Python for initial versions of anything is a good idea because it's quick to code. After that find the bottlenecks and micro-service using languages that seem appropriate for the various bottlenecks.

Start small man. Don't focus on the light at the very end of the tunnel, you will think it's too far and get discouraged, especially if you're watching everyone else. Focus on the beta launch and the minimal set of features required. You'll be surprised after you see it running how inspiring it will be to start cranking out code.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#273
I don't know what to tell you. I'll be 50 in less than a year, and I am learning new things on my own constantly as I have been since I started programming 35 years ago. The only difference I feel is that I am able to learn faster (and a deeper level) then when I was half my age. One thing I've really gotten good at is learning. I know how to do it.

I don't expect my behavior to change any time soon.

I think if you have have the attitude that learning is only something you do to prepare for work, but then when work starts, you don't have to learn as much as you did before, then you're going to get frustrated really soon.

What you know now will be half as useful in 5 years, and practically useless in 10 -- for the most part.

But if you embrace life-long learning, you will adjust how you live your life. You'll allocate time to do, and allocate time to learn. Give yourself goals such as, "learn a new programming language each year" -- or whatever your passion is. If you're a DBA, then learn a new Database each year.

The mistake a lot of people make is they only learn things that they believe they need for their immediate job rather than learn things for the sake of learning. The latter is when you get the "aha" moments, that bit of spark that makes you realize you've not only learned something new, but something that can be practical in your daily job.

As one example, last year I spent time learning Haskell. It has made me a better C# and JavaScript developer.

Don't beat yourself up for watching TV. Just set small achievable goals with a reasonable time-frame, and stick to it. You say you don't have a fancy web-site, well make it your goal to create the best one you can possibly create in 2015. Make the goal real. Tell yourself that you'll blog about it and talk about it at local meet-ups in 2016 -- talk about your experience creating it.. from the initial goals all the way to completion, including what you've learned from the experience. Then it becomes something real and tangible.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#274
No problem here at 44. I have listings of code I wrote when I was a teen. It was good code. Code I wrote in my twenties is very good when I look at it today. I was pretty good at a young age, and so are others who are those ages now. I'm also a tad smarter than my younger self, and that's what counts.

Someone who at 25 was smarter than my 25 year old self (whether at the same time or decades apart) will probably be smarter at 45 than my 45 year old self.

Someone who wasn't smarter than me at 25 will probably not catch my 45 year old me at 45 either.

You're driving yourself with the concurrent comparison: people who are currently younger. That is fallacious. Someone who was smarter than you at your age or younger historically also counts.

For instance, someone in 1969 could have been a brilliant hacker at age 17; better than you are now. Do you discount that person today because he or she is currently older than you?

Basically, you should compare yourself to historically good people. When you do that, you probably don't stack up. So, get over it and move on.

Future-wise, also. Someone not even born until after you die will be better than you.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#275
post #64

> It's been getting better. It's not, it's getting worse. You are in a cycle of slave-driving yourself. You remind me of Jiddu Krishnamurthi's assertion that "Influence acts strongest when you don't realize that it is acting". I would venture that most of your accomplishments are a result of being told what you should do, what you should be. You will NEVER have the energy that the people whom you compare with have. B…

The only thing that fits this discription for me would be sex. Now what ?

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> You will NEVER have the energy that the people whom you compare with have. Because they are being themselves, and are connected to the natural wellspring of motivation that comes from genuine interest, while you are the salmon swimming upstream, aping societal ideals and trying to be someone you are not. >> Almost no one takes my advice because it's so threatening to be natural. What if you are not naturally ambit…

>Basically, comparison causes conflict, conflict causes anxiety, anxiety causes fear, and fear makes mind dull. There's no intelligence where there's fear. Key here is to eliminate comparison. What a great quote

I disagree with it. The fires of conflict forge the deepest bonds.

I find I don't end up being comfortable with someone until we've argued about something. One of my favorite ways to become friends with someone is to find something we disagree on and debate it.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#277
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 48. More productive in the past ten years than ever before. I used to feel the way you do, in my twenties. A lot of it was just jockeying for position among a group of high-achiever friends--trying to be the alpha in a group of alphas--and some of it was having been the big fish in the small pond of my immediate peers and finally being thrown into the big pond. But none of that really matters. Don't plan for the…

> Pick a long-term goal (interstellar flight, artificial intelligence, peace on earth, whatever), break it into manageable projects, then start. Let's think strategically: if your first project is curing aging and achieving immortality, then every other project after that is just a matter of time. Just sayin'.

> Let's think strategically: if your first project is curing aging and achieving immortality, then every other project after that is just a matter of time. Just sayin'.

Actually, if you "cure mortality" first, you will exacerbate all the other problems related to population overshot, environmental damage, wealth distributions, etc. Then elf-style immortality will find itself cured, at gunpoint, or in more gruesome ways.

On the other hand, you can accept that both of us (along with every human alive today) will die. Once you are free of that burden, you may identify a worthy project, push it as further as possible within your lifetime, and take the time to train some younger replacements that can take over later on.

And of course, I might be wrong, so you might end up enjoying amazingly extended lifecycle. I just don't think it is a good idea to count on it.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> You will NEVER have the energy that the people whom you compare with have. Because they are being themselves, and are connected to the natural wellspring of motivation that comes from genuine interest, while you are the salmon swimming upstream, aping societal ideals and trying to be someone you are not. >> Almost no one takes my advice because it's so threatening to be natural. What if you are not naturally ambit…

>Basically, comparison causes conflict, conflict causes anxiety, anxiety causes fear, and fear makes mind dull. There's no intelligence where there's fear. Key here is to eliminate comparison. What a great quote

It's like a cross between "Fear is the mind-killer" from Dune, and something Yoda would say.

And to actually add something useful to the discussion, I'll add that I think the key to dealing with fear, and distressing emotions in general, is not to try to get rid of it, but to learn to function effectively in it's presence. Sometimes fear is a valid response, and should be respected. A lot of the time, fear is not a useful response. Sometime, when fear isn't seen for what it is, when I'm acting out of fear but not aware of it, fear can be quite destructive.

Check out "Things Might Go Terribly, Horribly Wrong" (http://www.amazon.com/Things-Might-Terribly-Horribly-Wrong/d...), as well as almost anything from Pema Chodron.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#279

I "started in earnest" at the age of 11. Now I'm 36 and have CTO in my job title (but I'm very hands on - still a small firm, headcount When I talk to younger people about what it is to be a professional programmer, I ask them "Do you like learning? Are you prepared to learn something new every day? Are you prepared to do a job where your task is to quickly learn and apply that learning constantly?" That is what a pr…

> I ask them "Do you like learning? Are you prepared to lea ...

you should have been more honest and instead asked them whether they are prepared to sit in front of a computer 95% of the time - whether they like to learn new technologies in their spare time just for the sake of staying competitive no matter if it bears real practical relevance and if they are cool with earning less than their fellow key account manager ...

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#280
It's a simple fact that a lot of the stuff that exists now to do awesome things and learn skills faster, wasn't available 2, 3 even 5 years ago (never mind a decade ago).

But it's never really "late" to do anything career wise. Other's may have issues with age, but you can always learn new skills, work on projects, start businesses and more. There's no age limit on taking action.

It's easier now, more than ever, to pick up a framework to action on something and just do it.

Post reply on HN