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Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#171
I have this problem.

I have also Youtube, 9GAG and other websites "for fun". I tried so much ways to break with "fun sitting", but I have no success with it.

So, in one day I've noticed, that only one way to stop wasting time is remove all the unuseful stuff from subscriptions and make some body exercises (really!).

I've had this trouble. Now I'm trying to resolve it.

And. One thing from me... I live in poor family. One thing that really spins my gears is terrifying future - I don't want that my kids will be living like I. So, I should take care on my future to make it better.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP here. Believe me when I say that there's nothing more I'd rather do than what I'm doing right now. Not even in question. I love programming, I love the project I'm working on, and I love the ideas that are waiting to be worked on in my future. My heart fills with joy when I think about holding those finished products in my hands. When I get into the flow, I can zone out for days and work on my projects with hardly…

I have just one question. Do you (day)dream about code? If so, you're golden... This might sound flippant, but I have my best ideas and revelations while I'm being "idle" (showering, walking the dog, watching mindless TV). Desk-time is overrated in my book. Stuff needs to "percolate".

Yeah, pretty much. If I hit a sweet spot in my project, I take a lot of pleasure in just thinking about the architectural decisions and data structures while going for a walk or something. :)

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#173
post #64

> It's been getting better. It's not, it's getting worse. You are in a cycle of slave-driving yourself. You remind me of Jiddu Krishnamurthi's assertion that "Influence acts strongest when you don't realize that it is acting". I would venture that most of your accomplishments are a result of being told what you should do, what you should be. You will NEVER have the energy that the people whom you compare with have. B…

OP here. Believe me when I say that there's nothing more I'd rather do than what I'm doing right now. Not even in question. I love programming, I love the project I'm working on, and I love the ideas that are waiting to be worked on in my future. My heart fills with joy when I think about holding those finished products in my hands. When I get into the flow, I can zone out for days and work on my projects with hardly…

I suffer from the same weakness as you. I always have. I also love my profession, programming, more than anything I've ever done in my life. Also, like you, when I get into the flow of something, I do it better than most people I know. I go hard for days/weeks, but when it's over I can spend endless amounts of time playing video games or clicking around on the internet. All the while reading what the "elite" developers in my field are churning out in a state of awe. How do they have time for all of this? Does David Nolan have some sort of time altering machine??

I'm a little older than you, so I'll give some advice about how to deal with our personality "flaw." Embrace it. Be aware of it, be OK with it, and learn how to make it a positive thing. A few years ago I stopped worrying about being better than some programming idol. You're probably a pretty creative, innovative type if you're anything like me. You can't teach that, in my opinion, and that's a big advantage. You have this skill, programming, and you enjoy it, mostly. You also enjoy some down time. Use your down time how you wish, but always be thinking about the next big idea be it a business, a technology, or a new library. When you find the right idea, it will give you a jolt. "Holy sh#t, no one else has done that yet?" These moments are the ones that catapult me back into that driven, ambitious mode that makes me so productive.

Just remember that no one expects more of you than you. Don't be so hard on yourself. Know yourself and learn how to take advantage of your natural traits.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#174
post #64

> It's been getting better. It's not, it's getting worse. You are in a cycle of slave-driving yourself. You remind me of Jiddu Krishnamurthi's assertion that "Influence acts strongest when you don't realize that it is acting". I would venture that most of your accomplishments are a result of being told what you should do, what you should be. You will NEVER have the energy that the people whom you compare with have. B…

About 4 years ago, I thought I was done with software development. I was so burnt out and full of self doubt that I thought I was going to quit it forever. I wanted to do anything other than work with computers again. I quit my job, took up painting, and then a month later found myself banging away at a keyboard into a text editor because I had this burning idea for a program.

The problem wasn't the work, it was the environment. I had allowed myself to get into a situation where I was spending all of my creative energy on someone else: my employer.

I did a brief stint back as an employee at another place for a while, just because I had gotten desperate for cash and it was the only opportunity that came my way for a while. But I eventually went freelance and now I only work part-time for my client. The rest of the time I spend working for myself.

Moral of the story: you are correct, you do need to just cut and run sometimes, but just be careful not to confuse the impact of environment on your feelings about your activities with your actual feelings about your activities.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#175
post #64

> It's been getting better. It's not, it's getting worse. You are in a cycle of slave-driving yourself. You remind me of Jiddu Krishnamurthi's assertion that "Influence acts strongest when you don't realize that it is acting". I would venture that most of your accomplishments are a result of being told what you should do, what you should be. You will NEVER have the energy that the people whom you compare with have. B…

OP here. Believe me when I say that there's nothing more I'd rather do than what I'm doing right now. Not even in question. I love programming, I love the project I'm working on, and I love the ideas that are waiting to be worked on in my future. My heart fills with joy when I think about holding those finished products in my hands. When I get into the flow, I can zone out for days and work on my projects with hardly…

I wouldn't say idleness is inherently a bad trait. Doing something all the time is a good way to burn out and miss out on actually living.

It's great that you have a passion for programming and you get into the flow of working on something you actually enjoy. I can promise you that most - if not all - devs go through such period of flow and not being in the flow. Sometimes you lock on to a project and spend days on it, other times you don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole for days. I don't think that is bad unless it is harming some important end goal like a company deadline or life goals.

Are there other things you are interested in? If so, you can fill your so-called idle times with those. HN here, going outside and meeting people (if that's your thing), a hobby or two that you can naturally flow into as well.

If programming is your only passion, then you can fill a good chunk of idle time with other programming-related problems you find interesting. Random library you want to write? Go for it. If charity is your thing, find some group for social good that can benefit from your dev skills - make their website better, write an app for them, improve their inventory system, etc.

That said, it takes conscious effort to not be swallowed by the stuff that makes the news. Forget about those who seem to be starting $90000 billion businesses at 23. They've found something they like and it worked out well for them, great! Find your own interests and work on cultivating and growing those instead.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#176
There are 3 points that I hope can give you a better perspective on this

1. There is a nice startup wisdom that you really shouldn't worry about competition, you just need to be the best version of yourself. The competition has their own problems that they don't talk about, so any fancy project out there is probably not as fancy after all and has its own problems. It all looks nice and pretty on the surface, but most concepts are just not viable, same in startups as in dev projects.

2.All the other projects that others have are based on years and years of unsuccessful work. They had to work hard, so rather try learning from them than being jealous and one day, you might be successful, too.

3. There is always someone younger, prettier, faster, better, bit I think that is a very beautiful thing. How boring it would be if you were the youngest, prettiest, best one already?

At 26, you are at the BEST age to start a startup, just out of Uni and not kids yet, how awesome is that. So now you have seed funding probably over $100k from what your runway tells me and now you got around 3-4 years without major responsibilites to start a startup.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#177
post #64

> It's been getting better. It's not, it's getting worse. You are in a cycle of slave-driving yourself. You remind me of Jiddu Krishnamurthi's assertion that "Influence acts strongest when you don't realize that it is acting". I would venture that most of your accomplishments are a result of being told what you should do, what you should be. You will NEVER have the energy that the people whom you compare with have. B…

OP here. Believe me when I say that there's nothing more I'd rather do than what I'm doing right now. Not even in question. I love programming, I love the project I'm working on, and I love the ideas that are waiting to be worked on in my future. My heart fills with joy when I think about holding those finished products in my hands. When I get into the flow, I can zone out for days and work on my projects with hardly…

Reading the OP and this comment I can't help but think "hmm, sounds like me when I'm unmedicated."

I'm a very ambitious and motivated person. I love stupid hard, nitty gritty problems. I've been writing code since I was 8. I landed my first coding job when I was 16 (working for the USAF Research Laboratory, no less). I'm now 29.

Growing up I was always driven by my interests. If I wasn't interested, I wasn't going to do it. If I was interested there was no stopping me from doing it. I was smart enough that I coasted through high school, but when I hit college I very nearly flunked out.

The problem was that my interests ran hot and cold. One day/minute/hour I'd be deeply interested in some subject, and the next I couldn't care less. This would happen with topics which I knew were captivating to me in a general sense. Sometimes I'd get so interested in some project I'd skip other classes for a week or more because I couldn't stop thinking about it.

However most of the time I'd find that without exercising hurculean amounts of discipline there was no way I was going to be able to stay on track well enough to study and finish homework/projects.

I'd sit down for a lecture with all kinds of ambition to focus and absorb the material. 20 minutes in my brain was somewhere else and the margins of my notebook were filled with mindless doodles.

When my grades dropped low enough my school's intervention programs kicked in. It was suggested that I go get checked out for learning disabilities. Since I felt somewhat compelled to show I was making an effort, I did.

I figured I didnt have any kind of disorder - especially ADHD. I wasn't hyper, and when I was "in the zone" it was nearly impossible for me to shake my focus.

It turns out that having ADHD doesn't necessarily mean that you are never focused. It just means you have a very difficult time choosing to be focused. In fact, hyperfocusing (marked by losing track of time, forgetting to eat, etc) is a common symptom.

Occasionally I go mine my old college notes for some obscure detail. With a single glance you can easily tell if a page was written pre-medication or if it was written post-medication.

If you think this story echos your own experiences and struggles, do yourself a favor and go have a chat with a psychiatrist or neurologist. It may just change your life in a huge, incredible way.

Finally, do try to stop comparing yourself to others in such a destructive way. Success stories are a bit like airbrushed models in lingerie ads. They don't give you the whole story. They're there to capture your eyeballs with hopes that they can be monetized, marketed to, or both.

Try to focus on incremental goals, instead. Scope these goals with a focus on finishing rather than perfection, and don't beat yourself up for not being superhuman. Specifically, try your best to fight the thought that success is predicated upon the kind of hard work that produces exhaustion. Success comes from routinely focusing on well-scoped, iterative goals.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#178
thx for writing this and to all the advices on the comments. can't say how much i can relate to what you feel. i'm younger than you at 24, definitely not one of these hot-shot young dev. i have no any geek creds whatsoever, empty github profile, no shiny personal website, no stackoverflow rep, nothing. countless time i've tried to spend my free time working on some side project although i know i don't actually enjoy doing it. in the end i end up doing almost nothing. every start of the week i feel very grumpy thinking about how much time i have wasted on the weekend.

i also like to compare myself to what others around my age have achieved and i would set silly target for myself ('if they achieve that at the age of x, i will surely achieve that as well when i turn x'). i know this is toxic mindset, but i just cant get rid of it. i'm currently working in a very promising startup now. i know i should be grateful with what i have right now but i can't help thinking how little i have achieved and how i can get kicked out easily once new bright young devs come in.

this couple of week, i'm starting to come to terms with myself, rethinking my life goals and cutting off the unrealistic ones. i'm still mentally exhausted though and currently contemplating of taking sabbatical break just to try to enjoy life again. hope that you too will find your solace and i wish you all the best for your new project.

ps: not sure about this, but i always assume that my problem will solve itself if i can get a girlfriend. it will be great to have someone by your side that support and acknowledge you. it also helps you to think less about yourself as you shift your focus and attention to her. i'm not so lucky to have one though...

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional jealousy and getting older?

#180
Every morning, I ask myself, "Just when do you plan on getting out of the bed?" And then I hop right out of bed.

I think vijucat is right that you probably still need to figure out what you even want out of life. Just, for every answer you come up with, then ask yourself "and then what will I have?" And if the cycle doesn't end somewhere with "happiness", then you're not on the right track.

It's important to decide on your own metrics for success and not let others dictate it to you. Who are you working for, anyway? I mean, in the most basic sense, are you working to make a life for yourself or a life for these other people? What should their opinion on your success matter?

Then get really fucking honest with yourself. If you really, truly love software development, and you're goofing off on HN all the time, yeah, you're a piece of shit. Don't hide from that fact. Get it wedged deeply into your head "I've spent the last 3 hours trawling HN for content, I am a piece of shit." And maybe you'll learn to have some respect for your time.

Speaking of respect for your time, I also find that forcing myself to not work outside of work hours makes the work hours more "real" to me, and I get a lot more done during that time. I try to guard my time: this over hear is the time I spend goofing off, this over hear is the time I work, I don't want work to encroach on my goofing off, so I don't let goofing off encroach on my work.

Part of that comes from understanding that there is effectively an infinite amount of work. The work will always be there, and I will die before it is done. There is no sense in burning my entire life away without any enjoyment on a fool's errand. Unless you're a fire-fighter or an emergency room doctor, there is no such thing as urgency to work, it is all an invented construct. So don't let other people force it on you.

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