OneBit – Mastercard PayPass Integrated Bitcoin Wallet • Hacker News Board

Re: OneBit – Mastercard PayPass Integrated Bitcoin Wallet

#41

Post by toomim » Tue, Apr 07, 2015, 8:13 PM UTC

this_user wrote: post #34

toomim wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Merchants wont use it. They love no chargebacks and no real fees, but we can't guarantee they will ever get the money for the sandwich they just sold. A guarantee isn't what you want. Cash and card isn't guaranteed either — the cash might be counterfeit; the credit card might be stolen. What you want is to reduce the rate of fraud. So let's compare the rates of fraud between bitcoin and cash/card. Credit card trans…

> But I've never even heard of retail bitcoin fraud with zero-confirmation transactions. Then you are simply not very well informed. Problems with BTC transactions have happened repeatedly. Here is a great example of a successful 10k double spend during a chain fork: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5372956 It was was made possible buy slightly different behaviours in the different client versions. The core devel…

This was not retail.

Re: OneBit – Mastercard PayPass Integrated Bitcoin Wallet

#42

Post by toomim » Tue, Apr 07, 2015, 8:14 PM UTC

etingel wrote: post #29

toomim wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Merchants wont use it. They love no chargebacks and no real fees, but we can't guarantee they will ever get the money for the sandwich they just sold. A guarantee isn't what you want. Cash and card isn't guaranteed either — the cash might be counterfeit; the credit card might be stolen. What you want is to reduce the rate of fraud. So let's compare the rates of fraud between bitcoin and cash/card. Credit card trans…

> How did you get here? It seems to me that this is the wrong question to ask. What you should be saying is "Thank you so very much for bringing us your prospective. How can we go about better informing people like you in the payments industry?" What litaph91 described is a very real fear. Sure, all of us on Hacker News know that the fear is unfounded, but the general public doesn't know or understand everything that…

You're right. I apologize. Thanks for calling me out.

Re: OneBit – Mastercard PayPass Integrated Bitcoin Wallet

#43

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Apr 07, 2015, 8:39 PM UTC

zyrthofar wrote: post #28

Isn't that exactly what we shouldn't want, that the credit card companies also record our financial transactions made via a currency created to be decentralized? This basically ends as a bit of convenience for us, at the cost of them keeping the near monopoly on world-wide transactions... What's the point of bitcoins if VISA, MasterCard, etc. still know everything we buy world-wide, conveniently accessible in their d…

If you pay in bitcoin, every one in the world can see that transaction. It's not trivial to tie to a person, but de-anonymisation can happen at any time later.

Re: OneBit – Mastercard PayPass Integrated Bitcoin Wallet

#44

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 07, 2015, 9:39 PM UTC

etingel wrote: post #29

toomim wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Merchants wont use it. They love no chargebacks and no real fees, but we can't guarantee they will ever get the money for the sandwich they just sold. A guarantee isn't what you want. Cash and card isn't guaranteed either — the cash might be counterfeit; the credit card might be stolen. What you want is to reduce the rate of fraud. So let's compare the rates of fraud between bitcoin and cash/card. Credit card trans…

> How did you get here? It seems to me that this is the wrong question to ask. What you should be saying is "Thank you so very much for bringing us your prospective. How can we go about better informing people like you in the payments industry?" What litaph91 described is a very real fear. Sure, all of us on Hacker News know that the fear is unfounded, but the general public doesn't know or understand everything that…

[deleted]

Re: OneBit – Mastercard PayPass Integrated Bitcoin Wallet

#45

Post by NeutronBoy » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 2:00 AM UTC

litaph91 wrote: post #8

I sincerely wonder why companies are wasting their effort on the contactless market, especially smaller companies. This product will be stillborn in the U.S. as NFC terminals are fairly rare and even after the education delivered by Google Wallet and ApplePay, 43% of people who attempt to use ApplePay at a terminal that supports it fail and the clerk provides no meaningful assistance. If they won't support ApplePay,…

> This product will be stillborn in the U.S. as NFC terminals are fairly rare

Meanwhile in Australia, over 70% of CC purchases at supermarkets (and 50% overall) under $100 are contactless, signatures have been phased out (PIN is required for transactions), and Chip & PIN cards have been the norm for 5+ years.

Re: OneBit – Mastercard PayPass Integrated Bitcoin Wallet

#46

Post by manymany » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 2:07 AM UTC

With this scheme, the merchant still has to pay for swipe fees (which are ultimately transferred to the customer through higher prices -- the ultimate hidden fee!). Swipe fees are evil.

Re: OneBit – Mastercard PayPass Integrated Bitcoin Wallet

#47

Post by kristianp » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 3:55 AM UTC

this_user wrote: post #34

toomim wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Merchants wont use it. They love no chargebacks and no real fees, but we can't guarantee they will ever get the money for the sandwich they just sold. A guarantee isn't what you want. Cash and card isn't guaranteed either — the cash might be counterfeit; the credit card might be stolen. What you want is to reduce the rate of fraud. So let's compare the rates of fraud between bitcoin and cash/card. Credit card trans…

> But I've never even heard of retail bitcoin fraud with zero-confirmation transactions. Then you are simply not very well informed. Problems with BTC transactions have happened repeatedly. Here is a great example of a successful 10k double spend during a chain fork: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5372956 It was was made possible buy slightly different behaviours in the different client versions. The core devel…

That was 755 days ago. Bitcoin updates are handled much more carefully since then.

Re: OneBit – Mastercard PayPass Integrated Bitcoin Wallet

#48

Post by quelhas » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 10:29 AM UTC

litaph91 wrote: post #19

alexland wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As right as you are about the American market, it's extremely annoying that the rest of the world doesn't get to use services like Google Wallet and Apple Pay. In Canada, I've been tapping to pay for years, yet there are no popular 3rd party services to use my phone for paying. So sure, it'll be stillborn in the US. But I don't give a crap about the US, you guys get enough of the cool stuff. This is a sweet deal for…

I will admit that while scanning through the content on the site again, I missed an important piece of wording that initially formulated half of my opinion here. It is important to note that it does say World-wide. If they are poised to launch in other countries besides the US then I retract my statement about it being a waste. However, I've seen much of this financial tech go straight to US for launch. If its NFC it…

Wasn't there recently some kind of legislation in the US that encouraged the adoption of NFC-based terminals, which was one of the main drivers behind the release of Apple Pay in the first place? I remember reading about it somewhere in the middle of a Google Wallet vs Apple Pay flamewar.