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Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

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Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#361

Post by ics »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #351
avn2109 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "...easy to verify with a disassembler." Have to laugh at this, because only on HN is the use of a disassembler considered "easy." True story, I program computers for a living, and I have literally no idea how to verify anything at all with a disassembler. Or even approximately how one works.

We're talking about a breach of a major distribution. It's the job of someone in charge to do the analysis, not every single end user. To them , it is easy. And I'm talking about looking at a 20 byte function; you could figure it out if you wanted.

Read my analogy again (despite it's flaws). It isn't mainline kernel development has been breached. It is more like *Ubuntu accidentally set `APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated "true";` and then thousands of users upgraded from a tainted mirror[1]. Regardless of how you lay blame, Canonical would have a responsibility to undo that action.

[1] I don't use Ubuntu so maybe it doesn't fully apply here. On Arch using pacman, the list of mirrors/caches is mostly commented out so that people can choose their own. They are "trustworthy" essentially until they're not, but we have signature checking to fall back on. In the physical world we don't have this, thus the setup of my (again, flawed) analogy.

Any more involved than that and it's missing the spirit of what I was trying to say, but I admit that the disassembler response made me chuckle.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#362

Post by ics »

drchaos wrote: post #356
ics wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have to wait for someone to move it (maybe someone within the Parks department, they have the equipment at least) but it's worth pointing out that a job in NYC Parks as highly bureaucratic it is desirable. Many employees are professionals (seriously, you have no idea if the guy throwing the tarp happens to have a masters in landscape architecture, or the next guy, or...) and park officers must be designated as s…

> What happens if it falls on someone? Or someone climbs it and a piece breaks off? How exactly does covering it up help with that? I agree that there are valid reasons for wanting to remove it, but covering it up before that is just ridiculous.

I said it elsewhere, but it's just a sign to the removal crew so that they don't have to look [hard] for it. It might be unnecessary, it might just be up the whim of whoever was working that day. We don't know, and so I'm not going to call it a conspiracy. An exception (i.e. protection for the display of public art, even if scheduled for removal) would be pretty great, just not a high priority for our public officials unless we're vocal enough in our support here.

Edit: Oh sorry, you meant how does covering up help with the potential of it falling... Not much, except to possibly prevent people from being interested in it and going near it. Only the people who know what it is already would be interested. But I don't think it's actually going to fall, just that if they're going to remove it there's no surprise that it's covered. It's not uncommon at all to see tarped statues in Parks when any sort of maintenance is being done for a variety of reasons.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#363

Post by csandreasen »

csandreasen wrote: post #288
rhino369 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree morality and legality aren't the same thing. But we cannot have a personal morality exception to classified materials. I'm sure many people who work for the Department of Defense think the Iranian Nuclear deal is wrong. Should they be able to leak a bunch of classified information to sour it? I'm sure they'd believe making peace with, in their minds, genocidal maniacs with nukes is completely immoral. >Furthe…

The PATRIOT Act and Section 215 has been controversial since way before 2006. You might remember the whole argument that the FBI could collect everyone's library records and look for people reading subversive books. This article is dated February 15th, 2002, and one of its references is a now dead link to an article entitled "Library computers targeted in terrorism investigation" from the Sun Sentinel dated September…

My post would make a lot more sense had I not forgot to include the link: http://www.llrx.com/features/usapatriotact.htm

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#364

Post by Dylan16807 »

dragontamer wrote: post #359
Dylan16807 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How do you expect the Police to go after a swatter then? The creation of 'nameless warrants' is looked down upon in general, and is grossly illegal in many jurisdictions. Well we're talking about a 'nameless warrant' to only access something they could access at-will before, so I don't see that as a real problem. >we should _define_ metadata as the part that can be reasonably searched. That sounds like a mess. Metad…

> Well we're talking about a 'nameless warrant' to only access something they could access at-will before, so I don't see that as a real problem. No. A warrant means they can start accessing data. Install bugs, tracking devices... the whole works . All fourth amendment protections are gone once a judge grants the Police a warrant. The question is whether or not you want "Metadata" to be part of that pool or not. Pers…

>No. A warrant means

Are you serious? We're talking about a new thing that only restricts access compared to before. It would not be the same as a warrant today. That objection is ridiculous.

>Status Quo for the past decades.

Part of the problem is that it used to take manpower to spy on people, and a lot of that is getting replaced with computers that do it for nearly free. It's not a legal change, but it changes the end result in a terrible way.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#365

Post by Dylan16807 »

ics wrote: post #361
Dylan16807 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about a breach of a major distribution. It's the job of someone in charge to do the analysis, not every single end user. To them , it is easy. And I'm talking about looking at a 20 byte function; you could figure it out if you wanted.

Read my analogy again (despite it's flaws). It isn't mainline kernel development has been breached . It is more like *Ubuntu accidentally set `APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated "true";` and then thousands of users upgraded from a tainted mirror[1]. Regardless of how you lay blame, Canonical would have a responsibility to undo that action. [1] I don't use Ubuntu so maybe it doesn't fully apply here. On Arch using pacman,…

I'm not sure what your objection is to my post. If Ubuntu sets AllowUnauthenticated, then it's Ubuntu's job to check the server logs and at least attempt to analyze what the kernel module actually does. If they find out it's two lines of code and is completely harmless, they can tell all their users that.

The point is that you're using 'binary blob' to sound scarier than it is. With a statue there's no reason to fear it (for reasons explained in other posts). With an image displayer an expert can poke it and then announce there's no reason to fear it.

You're telling me I should be ready to wipe my disks then and there, even though it's just an image displayer, but that's an overreaction. Your analogy just strengthens the point that the park shouldn't panic.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#366

Post by MrZongle2 »

userbinator wrote: post #309
sixQuarks wrote: post #30

It would be cool if his bust becomes the first viral 3d printing meme, where people 3d print his bust and leave it in public spaces all over the world.

"Snowden is Watching You"?

Or perhaps "Snowden Was Watching Them Watch You".

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#367

Post by cdbajorin »

Semiapies wrote: post #320
cdbajorin wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what actual(valid?) argument did I actually produce? The fact that you are somehow extracting an opinion from my statement is fascinating. No where have I stated my beliefs, no where have I implied my beliefs. Your statement is a simple display of black and white thinking: "If you criticize my comment, you disagree with everything I believe". The fact that "people like me" exist in the context of th…

Seriously? When you responded with "I've never seen a plausible argument supporting what Snowden did that boiled down to more than [my morality is more important than your laws]", you were trying to mock my complaint. However, while I was complaining about a lack of argument, you were complaining about an actual , very valid argument that I endorsed. Or to put it another way, snarking about people who think morality…

> you were complaining about an actual, very valid argument that I endorsed

Here's a list of people that were morally justified in breaking the law:

Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr., Eric Rudolph, Mohamed Atta

Some you may agree with, hopefully some you don't. But it's YOUR morality, so I'm sure it's OK.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#368

Post by forgottenpass »

ics wrote: post #162
plainOldText wrote: post #62

It's interesting to see that these people (1) installed the bust in such a way that it can be easily removed without damaging the existing structure and (2) went to great lengths to ensure that the new design is honoring the aesthetics that were already in place. One can argue otherwise, but I think this is a very creative and considerate form of protest which btw is also non-violent.

As I said in another response: it's a political statement made with public art. As far as Parks and Rec is concerned, it's big heavy piece of vandalism, the integrity of which they know nothing about. To put this in a programmer's perspective: imagine if artists wanting to make political statements suddenly started littering your linux kernel with binary blobs which caused your boot screen to flash an image of Snowde…

There are wildly different risk and trust profiles at stake. Your analogy is incomprehensible.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#369

Post by berserkpi »

ics wrote: post #162
plainOldText wrote: post #62

It's interesting to see that these people (1) installed the bust in such a way that it can be easily removed without damaging the existing structure and (2) went to great lengths to ensure that the new design is honoring the aesthetics that were already in place. One can argue otherwise, but I think this is a very creative and considerate form of protest which btw is also non-violent.

As I said in another response: it's a political statement made with public art. As far as Parks and Rec is concerned, it's big heavy piece of vandalism, the integrity of which they know nothing about. To put this in a programmer's perspective: imagine if artists wanting to make political statements suddenly started littering your linux kernel with binary blobs which caused your boot screen to flash an image of Snowde…

Is the park Mal-functioning because of this? I don't see how.

Maybe if they had decided to place it on a swing seat... different story... a funny one I'd say.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#370

Post by superobserver »

pharke wrote: post #144
sigzero wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is NO WAY this is "fair use and free speech". You can't even make that argument with a straight face.

To me, this is akin to chaining yourself to a tree in a public park to protest its removal or to a fixture in a courthouse or city hall or placing posters or drawing with chalk in such locations. This statue is about as permanent a fixture or modification as that would be. https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/know-your-rights-demonstrat... It has been argued before http://www.nyulawreview.org/sites/default/files/pdf/NYUL…

Interesting pattern of feigned disbelief in the comments here. Anyway, I thoroughly agree with your assessment.
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