Earlier quoted context omitted.
Snowden would not have been safe from kidnapping in South America. Once his location was known, he would have been as good as captured. Only Russia or China have the kind of military might that could deter the US from attempting to take him back by force.
All the while, Julian Assange hangs out at the Ecuador Embassy, ready for the taking. FYI: Snowden was trying to get to Ecuador when Russia trapped him in Moscow.
Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
331–340 of 374 posts
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am not inventing them; it is their (Parks and Rec) responsibility to handle contingencies that could cause them or their users trouble. You don't know what chance it [the sculpture causing harm] is because you know absolutely nothing about it except what the article has told you. But they're responsible for it and what it does under "normal conditions". The tornado example is funny because though it would probably…
People like you are why NYC is dying. I mean, my god, imagine the dangers inherent in public art! Those venemous subway buskers! The risk inherent in street performances! DIY music venues! Why don't we have all the boring squares move into a city and just smother it with uninventiveness masked as safety concerns? I bet you didn't like the phreaking scene, either, because it went against someone's risk assessment, too…
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's a matter of record that the US prevented him travelling after he got to Hong Kong. Also, bull!@#!. _CHINA_ prevented the US from traveling after he got to Hong Kong. If the US had its way, then Snowden would be in jail right now. CHINA prevented him from traveling after he got to Hong Kong. The US had very little power over the whole issue at that point. There are other parties at play here.
[citation needed]
China had an extremely important role with Snowden. They didn't care about the "passport", they were buying time looking for some other country to take him in.
I guess Russia took him in after that (Snowden didn't want to go to Russia. So I doubt that Snowden is a Russian spy... but if he knew what was good for him, he probably was forced to give some of his secrets to the Russians under the table.)
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#334It's interesting to see that these people (1) installed the bust in such a way that it can be easily removed without damaging the existing structure and (2) went to great lengths to ensure that the new design is honoring the aesthetics that were already in place. One can argue otherwise, but I think this is a very creative and considerate form of protest which btw is also non-violent.
As I said in another response: it's a political statement made with public art. As far as Parks and Rec is concerned, it's big heavy piece of vandalism, the integrity of which they know nothing about. To put this in a programmer's perspective: imagine if artists wanting to make political statements suddenly started littering your linux kernel with binary blobs which caused your boot screen to flash an image of Snowde…
And they're in the right, so there is that.
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#335Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure Snowden would be against it, if it stood a good chance of getting people talking about the upcoming reauthorization of the Patriot Act on June 1.
Hell yeah he would be for it, he was willing to stoop to an extended penis joke in his interview with John Oliver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M
On a tangent, I think Jon's demeanor was a bit to jerkish for my taste. I appreciate the desire to not look like a softball interviewer, but some of his jokes and remarks and mannerisms were embarrassing either in its insult to Ed/Julian or in its pure unfunny character.
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#336Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depending on what you mean by "otherwise trusted", I would either not care or freak out worrying that I got something other than the Snowden blob. Just displaying an image would be easy to verify with a disassembler. And it's misleading to use 'binary blob' as an analogy to a simple statue. Most binary blobs are effectively impossible to examine fully.
>> "...easy to verify with a disassembler." Have to laugh at this, because only on HN is the use of a disassembler considered "easy." True story, I program computers for a living, and I have literally no idea how to verify anything at all with a disassembler. Or even approximately how one works.
Knowing that, you should realize that a disassembler is just one or two of those steps reversed, the "assembler" steps, which should make if pretty much self-explanatory.
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#337Earlier quoted context omitted.
People like you are why NYC is dying. I mean, my god, imagine the dangers inherent in public art! Those venemous subway buskers! The risk inherent in street performances! DIY music venues! Why don't we have all the boring squares move into a city and just smother it with uninventiveness masked as safety concerns? I bet you didn't like the phreaking scene, either, because it went against someone's risk assessment, too…
I was born here in the '90s so I'm pretty sure I missed the whole phreaking scene, but your statement is a strawman regardless. I am advocating for this sort of public intervention. I support it 100%. Do I have to repeat that again? 100%. But reality will catch up with your ideals, and it's someone's job to take concerns that aren't yours and apply them in the best interest of the public [as determined by an imperfec…
> Sometimes they fuck it up by overstepping their bounds and acting in ways they are not authorized to.
> I fully support the artists here– but it is precisely the job of Parks employees to assist in the removal of any form of unauthorized modifications to the park.
Deep breath. Okay, here we go:
As someone who deals with building codes every week, I understand the reason why codes exist, the reason why inspections exist. Yes, the Parks department is doing their job, of course. No big deal.
But here's the thing:
Processes of authorization, verification, etc. is just one of many ways to deal with the world and with unstable processes. It's not the way to deal; it's just one of many ways. It may appear to be a default mode of operation (get a protest permit, get a sound permit, get a building permit), and yes, it often works to maintain order, but it's not the only way, nor is it a default way. It's just one way.
What authorization/permitting processes do is that they are explicitly law-oriented (laws are not the only way to create social order within a society), and thus enforce order in a negative, punitive fashion (if you don't do this, you will be punished). Reading in the park? Okay. More than 20 people gathering for a purpose? In NYC, this counts a special event, and requires a special events permit, otherwise it is unauthorized. Think of the 'rule' as a very sharp line demarcating between what is possible, and what is not possible.
Other ways of enforcing order can be lines that are gradients, fuzzy, in which the boundary between what is okay and what is not okay is not so clear. 'Tradition', or rules of thumb generate these social phenomena -- think about the way in which you can drive a few miles over the speed limit and not be ticket. Is it codified in a 'rule'? Uh, no.
> Your act of defiance does not trump everyone else's way of life.
But see here: NYC's gorgeousness doesn't from from its rule-oriented, sharp demarcation of What-Is-Okay. It comes from tolerance, really, which is a very stretchy, flexible thing that happens between community. When someone decides to call himself an alien and play the saxophone wildly on the C train, do people call the police because that's unauthorized behavior? Not really. Why not? Isn't a little bit like the subway busker is driving a little bit over the speed limit?
My point is largely that 'tradition' or 'rules of thumb' are actually present, valid, important, and non-trivial processes for which a healthy and tolerant society is created. (Of course, not all traditions are healthy; some are incredibly harmful. But the same goes for rules and laws, of course.)
If all of a sudden, the 'no subway buskers' rule is harshly imposed, that's actually quite a deliberate judgment to ignore the category of processes called 'traditions' for the category of processes called 'rules'. It's not said as such; the excuse will be: "well, the rules are the rules". This is because rules are (by definition) much more visible and explicit ("Do not solicit for money in the subway"), while traditions are shifting, hard to pin-down. Saying "the rules are the rules" is not actually a neutral behavior - it's a stance, specifically biased towards one process that engenders society-formation through punitive measures.
And so of course, the common argument is that traditions are 'arbitrary'; no, they're not. They're decided by people; it's just that they are localized, are more in flux, emergent behavior. Think agent-based programming vs. imperative programming, for a tradition vs. rule analogy.
Tradition is hard to write down, and hard to pin down, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, and isn't important.
SO. In summary. NYC is specifically rich because it's a place where many things are okay and celebrated. I've been here for more than a decade as an adult enough to not be starry-eyed about beatniks running in its heyday -- but it's really gorgeous. It's one of the few cities that can change who you think you are. It's one of the few cities that can make you rethink your relationship to space and architecture and other people. It's one of the few cities in which public space is everywhere and alive, because of the subway and because of its parks, and in which people may not be 'friendly' but will help each other out when shit goes south, because the density and closeness -- and tolerance -- of it all brings people together.
It's not just the rules that create this kind of city -- so very much of it is the traditions, the informal processes, the difficult-to-transcribe ecologies, the behavior that emerges. Rule-oriented, legalistic processes of authorization and permitting are not the only answer to creating a society. Laws are not always the answer to dealing with other people; nor should it be a default. Let's not fetishize authorization and permitting.
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
Shouldn't the American way involve a vote or some other involvement of the democratic process at some point? Is America now all about individuals just doing whatever they want, and if somebody doesn't like it, too bad?
How do we have a democratic process about such matters when they're secret? We've tried the "trust our elected officials" approach. We got mass surveillance. Next idea?
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#339The Wall Street Bull is also a piece of guerrilla art in New York City. That huge bronze was made by Arturo Di Modica and installed by him in 1989. It was once towed away to an impound lot, but enough people complained that it was moved to its present location.
This is probably the most relevant comment in this thread and something that I am glad to have learned.
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
The National Front will be part of the government in France. Is that what we should strive for?
Unfortunately, yes, I think they should have a seat. While I disagree with everything they stand for, it isn't for me or anyone else to decide who should or shouldn't get their voices heard. If they have enough citizens to vote for them, absolutely they should get a seat. In fact giving extremists a voice somewhat counter-acts extremism as they feel like they have an outlet for their perceived issues.
That's debatable. The ridiculous amount of coverage they have had in France has certainly improved their popularity.
The only good thing about them getting more power is that they can clearly demonstrate that they are just as incompetent and corrupt as the other parties.