Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

animalnewyork.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 374 posts

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#291

Post by pvaldes »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #106
rosser wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it would be shameful of me to cover up your political speech when it's inflicted upon my property without my permission? Look, I emphatically believe in what Snowden did (though I may have some quibbles with his methods, his reasons were exemplary). I don't think that justifies what amounts to glorified — if tastefully done, and in keeping with the aesthetics of the monument — vandalism. This is a war memorial . H…

Your property? The monument is no more yours than it is mine. And since you asked, it would feel like someone understood the relative importance of things. It would feel like they hadn't died in vain, for an unappreciative, lethargic citizenry. >appropriated for someone else's ends? Appropriated for the same ends for which the original memorial was commemorating. The ends are the same. Let's also include some perspec…

To change the point of view of a monument or previous piece of art in a easily reversible way is not vandalism in fact. Is art.

Art is not a democratic thing at all. This is the same that Banksy does. Is also the "monna-lissa with moustache" from Duchamp, the picasso's versions of velazquez paintings, and the impresionists showing his pictures in the "salon des refusees". People changed his point of view for better and just learned to deal with it.

What was claimed as inaceptable vandalism and breaking of the rules yesterday, is just culture today.

More interestingly, the success of a work of art is not linked to the objet permanence. If damaged o destroyed will spawn more controversy and will spread the idea (the real work of art), probably spawning a miriad of "photoshop restaurations" on internet.

A very smart move.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#292

Post by fatterday »

tedunangst wrote: post #267
fatterday wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh you mean like when we separated from Britain by asking them to come down and have a nice little vote on it? Or when MLK asked all of the south to politely, democratically fix the whole racism thing. Sometimes protest has to break the rules. Because protest.

As I recall from my history classes, they did ask before breaking the rules.

MLK and company most certainly took steps that were not approved by some democratic process or approved by the state. Asking alone and letting "business as usual" answer the question "can we do this?" wouldn't have brought the change that humanity had deserved.

You seemed, to me, to be implying that all conscientious objectors must at all times observe complete obedience to the rule of law. That approach will never keep things running sanely for long. You can clearly see throughout history that it never has. Power must always be kept in check and in support of that, some of the rules ordained by that power must always be broken.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#293

Post by nostrademons »

Buge wrote: post #275
nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually pretty effective at face recognition when given actual faces: Obama: http://bit.ly/19Zkgur Putin: http://bit.ly/1aDAvyA Lindsay Lohan: http://bit.ly/19ZkFgk Matt Damon: http://bit.ly/1xYl5il

That only works because it found exact versions of that same picture on different websites and looked at the text of those sites and saw that the name "Barack Obama" was in the text of all those sites so it did an image search for "Barack Obama". Like I said: it searches for exact picture matches. If you took your own picture of Obama that had never been posted online before and did a reverse image search, it wouldn'…

Obviously it works better if it can find the exact image, but I don't think that's all that it's doing. For example, here's a picture of the Golden Gate bridge that I took myself from Angel Island, never before uploaded to the Internet:

http://bit.ly/1HJy0oL

It couldn't get the query, but it does get similar images, including at least one other that's also of the Golden Gate bridge. I unfortunately don't have any personal pictures of celebrities, but here's one of a slightly-askew photo of my computer screen that includes Obama's face (but deliberately not all of the original picture):

http://bit.ly/1CNk9wa

It managed to guess that one correctly, even though it didn't have the exact original image.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#294

Post by rhizome »

ics wrote: post #250
Dylan16807 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a couple feet tall and entirely inside the width of a large pillar. It's not going to fall on anyone. Education about electronics is good, but I think fighting back against "fear of blame" is also an important thing. I'm sure someone in the organization knew that blinking lights don't make bombs. Why didn't that message get to management?

> It's a couple feet tall and entirely inside the width of a large pillar. It's not going to fall on anyone. You're probably right, but that's a very naive way to approach public safety and accountability. If it was still visible right now there would probably be a few people climbing up to it to get a selfie with Snowden . > I'm sure someone in the organization knew that blinking lights don't make bombs. Why didn't…

You are literally inventing problems that either don't exist or have an exceedingly small chance of occurring. Yes, a tornado could sweep through and blow the bust onto a passing baby stroller, but the saying, "don't borrow trouble," comes to mind.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#295

Post by moyix »

Someone1234 wrote: post #95
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's amazing. Now if only the public works department could respond to potholes that quickly.

That is an interesting point. People here are saying (paraphrasing) "they'd take down any busk that wasn't authorised" and while I believe that to be true, it ignores the fact of just how QUICKLY this one got taken down. Less than six hours? How long does other graffiti take to be removed, days, weeks, months?

I showed up around 3:45pm and it was gone by then. NYPD were looking around though:

https://twitter.com/moyix/status/585181778438180864

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#296

Post by dragontamer »

nbouscal wrote: post #285
dragontamer wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if that is where you stop your argument, then you aren't helpful at all. Why don't you trust FISA? And if you don't trust it, what reforms to the FISA courts are you proposing? Or are you just a lazy armchair protester who doesn't even think about how to improve the world around you? Hey look, I can fling insults at you too and be unhelpful!! Seriously, the FISA system is documented, and it is part of the debate.…

Since 1979, out of 33,949 requests submitted, the FISA court has denied 12 of them, 4 of which were later partially granted after being resubmitted. You're correct in saying that it's good that this number is documented, but it also makes it extremely clear that the FISA court cannot be meaningfully said to constitute independent oversight.

Or it makes it clear that the NSA is in fact, following the law.

Which as far as I'm aware, none of what has been revealed by Snowden has been shown to be illegal. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#297

Post by rhizome »

dragontamer wrote: post #248
adamnemecek wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Snowden is the first guy I'm aware of who fled to China (and later, to Russia) to protect his own free speech. Color me a little bit suspicious of him. There aren't that many countries who would not release Snowden to the US.

Yes there are. Ecuador has proven itself reliable with Wikileaks founder Julian Assange. It proved itself reliable _long_ before Snowden decided to pull Chinese-specific information from the US Spy agency, fly to China, release Chinese information and (probably) beg to stay. Instead of going to a reliable country like Ecuador, he went to China. Snowden isn't a dumb guy either, he was clearly keeping up with the news.…

Maybe you missed this unprecedented act that kind of undercuts your point:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/02/world/americas/bolivia-preside...

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#298

Post by pandybar »

anon808 wrote: post #75
hullo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you'd done the same thing with a bust of your mother 10 years ago, they'd have covered it up as well. Try the same thing (with Snowden, or your mother) in France or China, and see what happens. Just because they parks department is doing their job doesn't mean democracy is ebbing.

Or maybe they would've removed it, and until they did left it uncovered. Neither of us know what they would've done. Not sure what China or France doing things has to do with how we do things in the US.

Don't worry too much, U.S. couldn't become China in one day just like you couldn't build Rome in a day.

I notice this little detail in the Tiananmen Square protest in 1989, five years after 1984. After the students build the parts of the statute named Goddess of Democracy, the state security bureau declared that any truck drivers helping them would lose their license.[0] At first this amused me a little bit, seeing how pathetic the security bureau was, but soon I feel so frustrated and disappointed be cause it hasn't been any better about politics after 26 years. Of course they have learned how to frame citizen under the coat of "Rule by law". Government without its chain is just like the Smaug.

[0] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_of_Democracy

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#299

Post by benihana »

dragontamer wrote: post #200
tessierashpool wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden's a hero and deserves his place on that memorial. This whole deal with the people putting up a statue of a hero and the government tearing it down? Not what America's supposed to be about. Combine that with the fact that most of the senators who voted for the Patriot Act probably read 1984, and didn't object to the obvious propaganda in the name Patriot Act? Not what America's supposed to be about either.

Snowden is a traitor who happened to bring up an important debate. Probably sold US secrets to China and Russia, while releasing public information so that he can have public support while doing so. He's one of the most successful double-agents in history, with excellent public relations. If a double-agent were to happen again in the future, they'll do what they can to study how Snowden handled his case. No, I don't…

>Probably sold US secrets to China and Russia

>He's one of the most successful double-agents in history, with excellent public relations.

>Snowden is almost certainly a double-agent based on the countries he fled to

All that speculation, then this gem:

>EDIT: Truth hurts, doesn't it?

But no. It's not cause your post is full of accusations and dubious speculation based on nothing and provides no evidence. It's cause you struck a nerve and showed the sheep here the truth and they can't handle it. That's definitely what it is.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#300

Post by Dylan16807 »

dragontamer wrote: post #280
Dylan16807 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Snowden's first revealed document Okay I'll be more specific. Without specific permission pertaining to a specific case, they collect whatever they feel like to sort out later. I don't like that. >I hope that in our short discussion, you learned how things actually work. I learned there has been more access to metadata than I previously thought, but my main worry is and has been the exploding amount of metadata and…

I know we want to close the discussion, but let me note one more thing. > Okay I'll be more specific. Without specific permission pertaining to a specific case, they collect whatever they feel like to sort out later. I don't like that. How do you expect the Police to go after a swatter then? The creation of 'nameless warrants' is looked down upon in general, and is grossly illegal in many jurisdictions. You cannot ge…

>How do you expect the Police to go after a swatter then? The creation of 'nameless warrants' is looked down upon in general, and is grossly illegal in many jurisdictions.

Well we're talking about a 'nameless warrant' to only access something they could access at-will before, so I don't see that as a real problem.

>we should _define_ metadata as the part that can be reasonably searched.

That sounds like a mess. Metadata has a pretty clear meaning already when it comes to communication.

>The debate really should be about determining which bits of data are "public" and which bits aren't.

Maybe, but things are much more complicated than public and not public.

Post reply on HN