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Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

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Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#121

Post by dragonwriter »

ceejayoz wrote: post #115
rhino369 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board report so I can't comment other than to say it is merely a government policy board. The DOJ fully supports the NSA. But 15 Federal district court judges have approved the NSA actions as part of the FISA courts. That a single federal district court disagrees isn't a huge deal. The third party doctrine is very clear. Records about you do not carry a reasona…

> That a single federal district court disagrees isn't a huge deal. Sure it is - that sort of disagreement makes it unsettled law, which is where SCOTUS steps in. Last year they (thankfully) ruled that cell phones can't be searched in most circumstances without a warrant, and I'd expect at least a few of the numerous suits that popped up in the wake of the Snowden leaks to wind their way to Court eventually. Right no…

> Sure it is - that sort of disagreement makes it unsettled law, which is where SCOTUS steps in.

The SCOTUS is more likely to take a case where there is a split in the case law among the federal circuit courts (appellate courts). A split among federal district courts (trial courts) does not really have much significance.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#122

Post by shkkmo »

AnkhMorporkian wrote: post #45
Semiapies wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the entire list of CIA field agents and their covers around the world" Not released. Not even plausibly given to "Greenwald & Co." It's telling that you jump to a ridiculous supposed analogy of endangered CIA field agents when we're talking "operations" safely carried out in secure server farms, cubicles, and offices.

Not all NSA operations occur within server farms, cubicles, and offices. They have agents, they have listening posts, they have people with assets in dangerous countries. I have no idea if that information was in Snowden's massive data dump, but that's the point; no one does. He dumped a shitload of data and it's doubtful if even he knows everything that's in there.

He claims to be familiar with the contents of every document, even if he hasn't read them all.

>> would it be "too far" to release the entire list of CIA field agents and their covers around the world to two journalists at a foreign newspaper because of that one group of agents? It absolutely would be and would potentially put shitloads of lives at risk. Snowden basically did the same thing with the NSA information.

>> he basically gave Greenwald & Co. unfettered access to a huge swath of the NSA's internal operations. That's too far for me. It's an issue of scope.

Since you admit that you don't know what exactly is in that data dump, perhaps you'd care to make a verifiable argument as to why what Snowden did was too far? Currently you are just using your own assumption that he went to far as your evidence.

//edit for typos

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#123

Post by sigzero »

superobserver wrote: post #108
hristov wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. If it is something unauthorized they probably would have removed it in due time. I.e., they would have taken a couple of days to hire professionals to do it. Now they immediately cover it up so that no-one can see it while they arrange for its removal. Why? Obviously they do not want anyone to look at it before it is removed. But why not? It is certainly not offensive in any way. It may prove to be…

Not just Soviet-style suppression, but state sponsored censorship. While the local rules of the park may deem that this is simply vandalism, I fail to recall such instances in the US demanding this kind of censoring and it should be pointed out a little more saliently in the article for appropriate effect.

You are kidding right? This has nothing to do with "Soviet-style suppression, but state sponsored censorship". It is the Park service doing its job. It IS vandalism. Plain and simple.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#124

Post by sigzero »

njharman wrote: post #64
yodsanklai wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shameful that something so harmless is immediately covered up (quite literally) because it challenges the state. Playing devil's advocate here, but would have they done differently with an other bust? maybe it's just forbidden to put a statue in a park without authorization.

You don't cover over forbidden things, only embarrassing things. That is the scary part, although not new. Is the authorities deeming information and political statements as dangerous and needing to be censored. Make sure more people don't hear about this and start asking questions like why do some people venerate as a here, this guy the government says is a traitor.

"You don't cover over forbidden things, only embarrassing things."

What? Wrong. That's just silly. Really it is.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#125

Post by tomjen3 »

rosser wrote: post #86
rglover wrote: post #35

Seeing them cover this thing up is a hideous moment in our history: https://vine.co/v/eBBvedaHtBz . Shameful that something so harmless is immediately covered up (quite literally) because it challenges the state. The U.S. is getting scarier by the day, folks.

So it would be shameful of me to cover up your political speech when it's inflicted upon my property without my permission? Look, I emphatically believe in what Snowden did (though I may have some quibbles with his methods, his reasons were exemplary). I don't think that justifies what amounts to glorified — if tastefully done, and in keeping with the aesthetics of the monument — vandalism. This is a war memorial . H…

That monument, if anything, belongs to the city and thus its people.

As for political speech I am quite okay with the rule that you can put up any bust that you have made for your own money, as a private citizen, so long as it is of that quality. I doubt the rule would be abused much.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#126

Post by sigzero »

pharke wrote: post #112
rosser wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it would be shameful of me to cover up your political speech when it's inflicted upon my property without my permission? Look, I emphatically believe in what Snowden did (though I may have some quibbles with his methods, his reasons were exemplary). I don't think that justifies what amounts to glorified — if tastefully done, and in keeping with the aesthetics of the monument — vandalism. This is a war memorial . H…

They took due care to choose materials that would not harm the monument. Public monuments and property are there for the enjoyment and use of the public, if that usage does no harm it should be allowed. The placing of this bust pushes the limits of this usage but should still be considered fair use and free speech since the artists did no harm. Even though it will cost whatever the wages and rates for the equipment n…

There is NO WAY this is "fair use and free speech". You can't even make that argument with a straight face.

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#127

Post by spiritplumber »

rglover wrote: post #35

Seeing them cover this thing up is a hideous moment in our history: https://vine.co/v/eBBvedaHtBz . Shameful that something so harmless is immediately covered up (quite literally) because it challenges the state. The U.S. is getting scarier by the day, folks.

In my hometown there's a mausoleum to a WW1 general that was built in Fascist times.

http://www.ecosistemaverbano.org/scheda.html?id=5955

The roof is held up by statues of service members from various branches... and a Blackshirt.

Every once in a while that gets covered (to signify anti fascism) or uncovered (to signify respect for the artist's intention). It used to be various local administration officials covering and uncovering it. Now it's just random people putting up tarps at night or cutting them down.

The town's official policy at this point is "we ran out of tarps in the early 1990s and don't care anymore".

I wonder how long that tarp will stay :)

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#128

Post by anonforthis1 »

I know he wants to come to Switzerland (from some of the comments/feelers his people have put out in the last month or so). I really hope he can. If he does there are an endless number of American ex-pats and EU workers that will do what they can to help him here.

He may have some trouble with the Swiss themselves though. They will want to question him about at least one covert operation he states he took part in when he was part of the CIA in Geneva, having to do with a Swiss banker. Frankly, the story sounds like a lie though. (he talks about bribing swiss police which is not something you can do easily here)

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#129

Post by spiritplumber »

Someone1234 wrote: post #90
borgia wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The U.S. is getting scarier by the day, folks. It really is. The facade of democracy is very quickly being peeled back to reveal something utterly terrifying. The response from the people has been the most disappointing and depressing thing though. The random sampling in NYC, of all places in the US, by Oliver's show was a brutal reminder of the mindset of the average person there.

Ignoring the republic/democratic state distinction, the US's democratic status has always been weak due to FPTP (ditto with the UK). It is essentially a system designed to keep the majority from even running and to keep the minority opinion silent. If the US (or UK) cared at all about democracy like they always claim they'd move to something better (e.g. Open list, party list, full on proportional representation, or…

FPTP = First Past The Post, for people whose first language isn't English. Took me a bit to figure out :)

Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn

#130

Post by sigzero »

bsimpson wrote: post #31
meritt wrote: post #27

We need a model of the bust so we can start printing these en masse on our 3D printers.

It will get even better when Diane Feinstein orders us to take the model off the Internet.

SENATOR Feinstein. Please, she earned it.
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