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Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

nytimes.com

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Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#21

Post by Zikes »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #6

A tool so dangerous and powerful that scientists consider it worthy of banning is a tool that governments will continue to work on regardless of the general scientific community's feelings. So the only question remains is if we want this tool to be understood and used by all or only those in power.

What you're suggesting is a sort of Manhattan Project for genetics. I don't think it's entirely impossible, but I do think that the scope of the project would be so great that it would be especially difficult to accomplish in a vacuum.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#23

Post by JoeAltmaier »

ams6110 wrote: post #13
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's creating any underclass? There's no reason to expect you won't just take a pill to change our eye color etc. It could be cheap and available. Not yet time to pull the emergency stop cord, because of imagined inequalities in a system that's not even been engineered yet.

Have you observed how the real world works? There are many diseases whose cures/preventions are "cheap and available" yet still continue to kill millions in the "underclasses."

Have you seen the unregulated medical systems in 3rd world countries? Easier access to antibiotics etc than in Malibu. Failure to cure diseases may be more about culture than price. Not warranted to jump straight to Gattica horror stories.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#24

Post by Zikes »

greggman wrote: post #20
wnevets wrote: post #7

Banning these methods won't stop the wealthy from using them. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. GATTACA here we come. edit: grammar

We've been at GATTACA since long ago. GATTACA is about a guy trying to sneak into the space program even though he has genes that say he's got a weak heart. How is that not already part of the space program? Requirements to be an astronaut http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/postsecondary/featu... * Distant visual acuity: 20/100 or better uncorrected * Height between 62 and 75 inches. Both of those are based on…

Well, visual acuity could potentially be surgically corrected. I'm not sure how relevant height is, exactly, but I'd be willing to bet a larger range than that could be accommodated in the right circumstances.

Then again, if you're genetically blind or have dwarfism, that may not be the case.

I think GATTACA is less about genetics setting a bar, but that the bar is constantly getting raised until it will eventually be unreachable without artificial enhancement.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#25

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

api wrote: post #10

There was a call around here to ban AI research too. Maybe the reason we don't do new things is that we are too afraid. I blame lazy and unimaginative sci-fi plots among other things. Genetics could improve the inequality situation too, but that would require challenging elements of our economic system which is off the table.

How, exactly, could genetics solve inequality? It is a social problem.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#26

Post by fragsworth »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #6

A tool so dangerous and powerful that scientists consider it worthy of banning is a tool that governments will continue to work on regardless of the general scientific community's feelings. So the only question remains is if we want this tool to be understood and used by all or only those in power.

This is true.

Regardless of the morality of it, the U.S. government will probably work on creating super-intelligent humans for national security and defense reasons.

I'd actually be surprised if they haven't started doing this many years ago, and it's top-secret.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#27

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

Humans modifying themselves is scary. Very scary.

One way it is scary is it creates a new form of genocide. Rather than murdering oppressed groups, we will simply disable the genes that make them part of that group, erasing diversity.

A world with only white, straight, cisgender, neurotypical, conventionally attractive etc. people is not one I want to live in.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#28

Post by Zikes »

nashashmi wrote: post #15
Zikes wrote: post #3

> They also want the public to understand the ethical issues surrounding the technique, which could be used to cure genetic diseases, but also to enhance qualities like beauty or intelligence. The latter is a path that many ethicists believe should never be taken. In many ways we are already selecting for those traits and have been for countless generations, so assuming we had a well-understood and safe method for ar…

> In many ways we are already selecting for those traits and have been for countless generations What we are not quite confident about is if one gene may have two or more different affects that we have yet to discover. Artificially changing selective genes without thinking that another gene may be needed to counterbalance one change is the possibility most worrying.

That is a purely scientific scenario and therefore can be understood and accounted for. The ethical question is how we identify and resolve them safely.

It is also mostly moot, as genetic interactions are already a part of everyday conceptions. Many of today's genetic afflictions are due to parents' genes interacting unexpectedly. See Lorenzo's Oil[1], for example.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenzo_Odone

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#29

Post by api »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #25
api wrote: post #10

There was a call around here to ban AI research too. Maybe the reason we don't do new things is that we are too afraid. I blame lazy and unimaginative sci-fi plots among other things. Genetics could improve the inequality situation too, but that would require challenging elements of our economic system which is off the table.

How, exactly, could genetics solve inequality? It is a social problem.

I didn't state that clearly. What I meant is the other way around-- that if people had more universal access to this technology it would be less likely to lead to greater inequality. This in turn would involve challenging our economic system.

I do think in that case it would be more likely to have a leveling effect, since it would be technically easier to fix problems or boost capabilities to high but normal human levels than it would be to try to go beyond normal human ability. At the very least there would be less risk of a runaway divergence if anyone could access this technology as part of normal family planning.

I agree that in our present economic system this would join elite schools and trust funds as another way generational inequality is perpetuated. IMHO we jump to banning because any economic change is categorically off the table. If these scientists instead called for universal access to any human enhancement technology, that would be crimethink.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#30

Post by api »

nashashmi wrote: post #17
api wrote: post #10

There was a call around here to ban AI research too. Maybe the reason we don't do new things is that we are too afraid. I blame lazy and unimaginative sci-fi plots among other things. Genetics could improve the inequality situation too, but that would require challenging elements of our economic system which is off the table.

Before you think about the possibilities for improvement, just think for once that there be more depth to the topic of genes than we have fully realized.

I studied genetics, so yes I realize that this stuff is harder than we likely think and is not a panacea.
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