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Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

nytimes.com

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Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#11

Post by ams6110 »

6d0debc071 wrote: post #5
Zikes wrote: post #3

> They also want the public to understand the ethical issues surrounding the technique, which could be used to cure genetic diseases, but also to enhance qualities like beauty or intelligence. The latter is a path that many ethicists believe should never be taken. In many ways we are already selecting for those traits and have been for countless generations, so assuming we had a well-understood and safe method for ar…

> In many ways we are already selecting for those traits and have been for countless generations, so assuming we had a well-understood and safe method for artificially selecting for them then there should be no ethical quandaries beyond "but, that's cheating!" Or creating a permanent underclass from those who were unfortunate to have parents who couldn't or wouldn't give them the enhancements - and for that to carry…

I agree. "Survival of the fittest" does not bode well for that underclass. At best they will naturally go extinct. At worst they will be exterminated or enslaved.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#12

Post by Zikes »

6d0debc071 wrote: post #5
Zikes wrote: post #3

> They also want the public to understand the ethical issues surrounding the technique, which could be used to cure genetic diseases, but also to enhance qualities like beauty or intelligence. The latter is a path that many ethicists believe should never be taken. In many ways we are already selecting for those traits and have been for countless generations, so assuming we had a well-understood and safe method for ar…

> In many ways we are already selecting for those traits and have been for countless generations, so assuming we had a well-understood and safe method for artificially selecting for them then there should be no ethical quandaries beyond "but, that's cheating!" Or creating a permanent underclass from those who were unfortunate to have parents who couldn't or wouldn't give them the enhancements - and for that to carry…

Sounds a lot like the plot of Gattaca, and I agree that would be an awful potential effect. I do not think it's insurmountable, however, and I agree that it's unfortunately fairly close to today's current class divide.

However, I don't think such a thing could happen "overnight" as you suggest. In order for those genetic enhancements to become commonplace they will need at least several generations of trials, especially to explore how various genes interact. This long process could well lower the barrier for the less privileged to participate.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#13

Post by ams6110 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #8
6d0debc071 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many ways we are already selecting for those traits and have been for countless generations, so assuming we had a well-understood and safe method for artificially selecting for them then there should be no ethical quandaries beyond "but, that's cheating!" Or creating a permanent underclass from those who were unfortunate to have parents who couldn't or wouldn't give them the enhancements - and for that to carry…

Who's creating any underclass? There's no reason to expect you won't just take a pill to change our eye color etc. It could be cheap and available. Not yet time to pull the emergency stop cord, because of imagined inequalities in a system that's not even been engineered yet.

Have you observed how the real world works? There are many diseases whose cures/preventions are "cheap and available" yet still continue to kill millions in the "underclasses."

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#14

Post by hyperbovine »

api wrote: post #10

There was a call around here to ban AI research too. Maybe the reason we don't do new things is that we are too afraid. I blame lazy and unimaginative sci-fi plots among other things. Genetics could improve the inequality situation too, but that would require challenging elements of our economic system which is off the table.

> Genetics could improve the inequality situation too, but that would require challenging elements of our economic system which is off the table.

No it couldn't, and in any case that are infinitely more direct and efficient ways of addressing inequality if that is truly your goal.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#15

Post by nashashmi »

Zikes wrote: post #3

> They also want the public to understand the ethical issues surrounding the technique, which could be used to cure genetic diseases, but also to enhance qualities like beauty or intelligence. The latter is a path that many ethicists believe should never be taken. In many ways we are already selecting for those traits and have been for countless generations, so assuming we had a well-understood and safe method for ar…

> In many ways we are already selecting for those traits and have been for countless generations

What we are not quite confident about is if one gene may have two or more different affects that we have yet to discover.

Artificially changing selective genes without thinking that another gene may be needed to counterbalance one change is the possibility most worrying.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#16

Post by Zikes »

ams6110 wrote: post #13
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's creating any underclass? There's no reason to expect you won't just take a pill to change our eye color etc. It could be cheap and available. Not yet time to pull the emergency stop cord, because of imagined inequalities in a system that's not even been engineered yet.

Have you observed how the real world works? There are many diseases whose cures/preventions are "cheap and available" yet still continue to kill millions in the "underclasses."

There are indeed many examples of this, especially in third-world countries ruled by dictators or superstitions, or a combination of the two. But that doesn't stop us from creating those cures/preventions for ourselves, because it's still the right thing to do.

We may eventually get through to them, at any rate. See Bill Gates and Polio vaccines, for example.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#17

Post by nashashmi »

api wrote: post #10

There was a call around here to ban AI research too. Maybe the reason we don't do new things is that we are too afraid. I blame lazy and unimaginative sci-fi plots among other things. Genetics could improve the inequality situation too, but that would require challenging elements of our economic system which is off the table.

Before you think about the possibilities for improvement, just think for once that there be more depth to the topic of genes than we have fully realized.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#18

Post by jcfrei »

wnevets wrote: post #7

Banning these methods won't stop the wealthy from using them. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. GATTACA here we come. edit: grammar

Absolutely. The sooner the general public accepts that genome editing is going to happen anyway and the sooner governments create institutions which allow the benefits of genome manipulation to be available to everyone the better for social cohesion.

Re: Scientists Seek Ban on Method of Editing the Human Genome

#20

Post by greggman »

wnevets wrote: post #7

Banning these methods won't stop the wealthy from using them. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. GATTACA here we come. edit: grammar

We've been at GATTACA since long ago. GATTACA is about a guy trying to sneak into the space program even though he has genes that say he's got a weak heart. How is that not already part of the space program?

Requirements to be an astronaut

http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/postsecondary/featu...

* Distant visual acuity: 20/100 or better uncorrected

* Height between 62 and 75 inches.

Both of those are based on your genes. Have bad genes, you don't get to be an astronaut.

There's also

* Blood pressure: 140/90 measured in a sitting position

And while I suspect most people can adjust their blood pressure through diet and exercise I'm sure some people could never get in that range. In other words they'd have the exact same problem as they guy in GATTACA, a bad heart.

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