The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay • Hacker News Board

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#41

Post by galfarragem » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:24 PM UTC

jrlocke wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt it selfish when people of means partake in 'aid trips' over sending money to an appropriate organization. If you care to help, leverage your abilities efficiently; make the money doing what you're best at, and let others administer the aid.

There's even a name for that: voluntourism.

"Voluntourism is ultimately about the fulfillment of the volunteers themselves, not necessarily what they bring to the communities they visit." [1]

“Basically, we failed at the sole purpose of our being there. It would have been more cost effective, stimulative of the local economy, and efficient for the orphanage to take our money and hire locals to do the work, but there we were trying to build straight walls without a level.” [2]

[1] http://www.psmag.com/business-economics/instagrammingafrica-...

[2] http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/voluntou...

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#42

Post by ics » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:24 PM UTC

jrlocke wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt it selfish when people of means partake in 'aid trips' over sending money to an appropriate organization. If you care to help, leverage your abilities efficiently; make the money doing what you're best at, and let others administer the aid.

But then maybe wanting someone else to use their money efficiently is selfish of us when they might rather develop as people by observing and empathizing with the struggles of others.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#43

Post by jtbigwoo » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:25 PM UTC

iamfbpt wrote: post #10

We all almost do through taxes. He goes further and donates 50% more from the remaining money.

> We all almost do through taxes. He goes further and donates 50% more from the remaining money.

This is an odd argument. Are you saying that paying taxes is some form of altruism? The story is about a guy who donates money with no tangible benefit to himself. We all get benefits and services from the government. It debatable whether the value we receive is equal to the amount we pay in taxes, but the value is certainly not zero.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#44

Post by Someone1234 » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:26 PM UTC

Symmetry wrote: post #28

Someone1234 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd liken it to the classic criticism: "charities spend too much money on advertising!" But how do charities get donations without advertising? How do they let people know why they need the money and encourage them to donate? At some point, yes, a charity can spend too much of its donations on advertising, but advertising in general is a necessary evil. Same with this. The charities might take in less overall if they…

One can criticizing people for taking the trips isn't the same as criticizing charities for offering them.

I suppose that is fair. But since I don't donate 1/1000th of what these people do even with the trip, I don't really think my grandstanding on how they spend their own money would really be justified.

I will say that I took a holiday last year, and technically that is money I could have used to donate. So in that sense I am just as bad as they are.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#45

Post by tim333 » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:27 PM UTC

bobcostas55 wrote: post #24

jrlocke wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt it selfish when people of means partake in 'aid trips' over sending money to an appropriate organization. If you care to help, leverage your abilities efficiently; make the money doing what you're best at, and let others administer the aid.

Empirically speaking, aid is almost completely useless[0], no matter who administers it. So whether he gives it all to the "appropriate organization" or "wastes" some of it on an aid trip is ultimately irrelevant. [0] Easterly's book is great if you're interested in the stats: http://www.amazon.com/The-Elusive-Quest-Growth-Misadventures...

Easterly's book is about aid mostly from western governments to developing country governments to encourage growth. That I can believe doesn't work very well and can end in rent seeking and corruption.

Giving $3.5k to save a child from dying of malaria is quite a different thing and seems obviously a good thing to do.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#46

Post by chii » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:28 PM UTC

Symmetry wrote: post #28

Someone1234 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd liken it to the classic criticism: "charities spend too much money on advertising!" But how do charities get donations without advertising? How do they let people know why they need the money and encourage them to donate? At some point, yes, a charity can spend too much of its donations on advertising, but advertising in general is a necessary evil. Same with this. The charities might take in less overall if they…

One can criticizing people for taking the trips isn't the same as criticizing charities for offering them.

why not? it takes two to tango.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#47

Post by mikemajzoub » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:32 PM UTC

jrlocke wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt it selfish when people of means partake in 'aid trips' over sending money to an appropriate organization. If you care to help, leverage your abilities efficiently; make the money doing what you're best at, and let others administer the aid.

I used to agree with this view, until I participated in an aid trip in college. When I personally saw what extreme poverty was, it changed the course of my life and future career decisions. So, the $1000 plane ticket and 10 days in a rural, high-need area allowed me to look outside the bubble of American extravagance I had grown up in.

It is one thing to rationally know that people are without food and basic medicine through the reading I did or videos I watched. It is another to be in a high-need community and find myself trying to explain to a father that I just ran out of the antibiotics he needed to help his sick child fight an infection. Of course it would have been more effective to not buy the plane ticket and ship $1000 more of antibiotics to the community, but that is the cost we (myself and the community) paid to change a lifetime of decisions I would make as a privileged American. The cost sickens me, but it is the reality I have come to understand.

Emotional connections are powerful, but they are difficult to form without the personal connection. My hope is that as technology improves, we will be able to build empathy more effectively even without the aforementioned expensive plane ticket. Perhaps then we will be more hesitant about war and more vigorous in helping refugees, victims of natural disasters, and others.

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#48

Post by jkestner » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:36 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #31

jrlocke wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt it selfish when people of means partake in 'aid trips' over sending money to an appropriate organization. If you care to help, leverage your abilities efficiently; make the money doing what you're best at, and let others administer the aid.

Since he's in the financial business, I'm wondering why he isn't leveraging the effect of "money makes more money" before donating. Isn't it better to invest that money first, before donating it? Take for example Bill Gates. If he had donated all his "surplus" money instead of building a business, he wouldn't have been able to donate the amount that he has; the amount wouldn't even be of the same order.

Factor in the time-value of money, and the risk of investments. Is $100 going to be more useful to the EFF to stop bad law now, or is $200 in a couple years when they have to try to repeal bad law?

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#49

Post by bobcostas55 » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:39 PM UTC

goodJobWalrus wrote: post #39

bobcostas55 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empirically speaking, aid is almost completely useless[0], no matter who administers it. So whether he gives it all to the "appropriate organization" or "wastes" some of it on an aid trip is ultimately irrelevant. [0] Easterly's book is great if you're interested in the stats: http://www.amazon.com/The-Elusive-Quest-Growth-Misadventures...

Function of aid is not to cause economic growth. Function of aid is to have a child not die of malaria.

Having children not die of malaria causes economic growth. And economic growth causes children not to die of malaria. So either way they're connected...

Re: The Trader Who Donates Half His Pay

#50

Post by chii » Mon, Apr 06, 2015, 3:40 PM UTC

personlurking wrote: post #4

Here's the view of the trader's professor (Peter Singer) on being ethical with one's money (in the first few minutes he gives his famous example of a child drowning). https://youtube.com/watch?v=dBvsZVlcXR4 (7 min) This 14 min lecture goes through Singer's example, and it explores his view further. https://youtube.com/watch?v=Pyzv2UWzaos

thats an interesting video. Gave me a lot of food for thought.