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New Hacker News Guideline: Avoid Gratuitous Negativity

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Re: New Hacker News Guideline: Avoid Gratuitous Negativity

#351

Post by dang »

pyrrhotech wrote: post #160

A lot of us (I'm at the top of the list) are occasionally hasty to be negative on the hottest new social media startups. As SA says, it's human nature to feel jealousy and sour grapes. "Damn these kids and their stupid chat apps that I could have made in 3 days when I was 16... and now they're raising 10 million dollars???". That's how most of us grinding it out at big companies likely feel when we read post after po…

This is precisely the kind of self-reflection that, in my experience, helps one resist the temptation to negativity that Sam wrote about in his post. It isn't easy and one invariably lapses, but it's profoundly worth doing. Thanks for giving us an admirable example.

Re: New Hacker News Guideline: Avoid Gratuitous Negativity

#352

Post by dragonwriter »

sprash wrote: post #90

This is the worst idea ever. I'm generally a pretty negative person for a reason. Negative feedback is necessary for anything to actually get better. And who or what decides what is "gratuitous". This is a recipe for despotism and censorship.

> This is the worst idea ever.

I can think of several ideas actually implemented in human history that were much worse.

> And who or what decides what is "gratuitous".

FTFA: "How are we going to enforce this? By asking the community to do so. Gentle reminders by peers are the best way we know to make the culture better."

> This is a recipe for despotism and censorship.

I don't see how that is any more true of the HN guidelines with this addition than it was of the HN guidelines without it. Could you, perhaps, flesh out the basis for this conclusion?

Re: New Hacker News Guideline: Avoid Gratuitous Negativity

#354

Post by ZenoArrow »

mreiland wrote: post #329
shkkmo wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did make a generalized observation about the guidline: "If HN has decided to be touchy feely than this most certainly isn't the place for me. I prefer actual discourse where bullshit opinions are called out as such." I also think you misunderstood the point the person was making with that statement: It's harder to make helpful critical statements when people let their feathers get ruffled, decide to treat you as…

I can see the interpretation, but no, I didn't reference the guideline, I was referencing the community. This may no longer be the place for me and if that turns out to be the case I'll gladly leave. > I also think you misunderstood the point the person was making with that statement: It's harder to make helpful critical statements when people let their feathers get ruffled, decide to treat you as a hater, and then d…

"Does that make me closed minded? So. Fucking. Be it, I'm closed minded. I learned that from experience."

I can't remember where I read it, but someone I believe was wise once said 'Our first approximation of other people is ourselves'. If I considered myself to be closed minded, it seems to be a burden. Sure, it would make some things simpler, but it's also quite isolating. Furthermore, it's too simplistic, no one is wise or a fool all the time, do you see the space in yourself for both?

Re: New Hacker News Guideline: Avoid Gratuitous Negativity

#356

Post by lnanek2 »

abalone wrote: post #236

Can we also have a rule against Gratuitous Positivity? Seriously, it's a slippery slope. "Nothing of substance" is a term that needs more clarification that what that post provides. It seems to suggest that if the criticism is too harsh, then it's no longer substantial. I think there's a better guideline than that. The best ideas not only can withstand criticism, they get better with criticism. If you examine what's…

That's a very good point. I'd be much happier if they said the new guidelines is no personal attacks. That's very clear and easy to check.

Instead we end up with this slippery slope of certain types of negativity vs. others and all it really means is the mods have a blank check to remove anything they don't like that isn't meaningless happy fun compliments.

Re: New Hacker News Guideline: Avoid Gratuitous Negativity

#358

Post by _deh »

jessriedel wrote: post #139
webwanderings wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right. I read this somewhere, something along the lines ... that when you disagree with someone, you should first make sure to repeat and restate the arguments of the opponent you disagreeing with, in your own words, before making any of your own arguments.

Here's one version, from Daniel Dennett: > How to compose a successful critical commentary: > 1. You should attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly, and fairly that your target says, “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way. > 2. You should list any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement). > 3. You should mention anything you have…

It's an excellent list. A little amusing as Dennett's own debating style is a touch more robust than this might suggest. Though in all fairness, if it's him vs. another philosopher of similar standing, both with subtle and complex positions built up over 40+ year careers, working through steps 1 - 3 might lengthen the discussion somewhat.

Re: New Hacker News Guideline: Avoid Gratuitous Negativity

#359

Post by vacri »

Karunamon wrote: post #106
300bps wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rampant negativity...seems to have gotten less common recently HN does do a good job of weeding out uselessly negative comments and other trolling behavior. If you want proof of that, go to your profile and turn on "Show Dead". It is amazing to see how many people are shadow banned yet continue to post on a daily basis. I've seen several accounts that have posted daily for years completely unaware nobody is seeing an…

I've noticed the opposite. I browse with showdead on, and roughly half the time I'm left to wonder what on earth transgression the person committed to merit being silenced in that way after examining their comment history.

I browse with showdead on as well. A lot of the time it does hit the target. Other times someone appears to be shadowbanned from only a couple of snarky comments a while back but before and after were polite. Occasionally it hits people that have only ever been polite, and I'm left scratching my head.

Re: New Hacker News Guideline: Avoid Gratuitous Negativity

#360

Post by lnanek2 »

brickmort wrote: post #81

Great move! HN is in dire need of this guideline. Someone could post the most amazing new project that they have worked months/years on, and the comments section would inevitably have comments like "this is rubbish, completely unusable, security flaws here and there" etc etc

People saying it is useless are useful, however, because you can see why it is useless to them and either accept it isn't part of your target market or change the product to include them. People just saying great things when they aren't allowed to be negative is kind of meaningless and unhelpful.
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