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We Should Have a Better Condom by Now

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Re: We Should Have a Better Condom by Now

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly true. Information that could be conveyed directly in a paragraph or two is dragged out to create a long and often dull narrative, usually without any points of reference. Condom designs don't change every year? Neither do penises. Medical gloves (whose technology derives from condom manufacturing) haven't changed much for decades either. Infection risks are mitigated with antimicrobial coatings and double-glovi…

> Condom designs don't change every year? Neither do penises. This misses the point by a mile. Particularly for someone complaining about the article having too much unnecessary information, it's bizarre that you missed the ~3 paragraphs following this that describe _why_ it's a problem that they haven't changed: low rates of satisfaction and usage for something that has considerable public health implications (parti…

I'm aware of all those things. But you're assuming that people are desperate to adopt something other than existing condoms, eg in Africa. They won't, on past form. Education efforts yield a better return than any putative new condom technology.

I'm not saying they're perfect, by any means. But when you get down to it, they're not hard to use and have a high success rate when used properly. Governments and aid agencies already substantially subsidize the distribution of condoms, which subsidies should easily be enough to offset the non-capture of positive externalities by manufacturers (as if the positive externality of repeat demand due to people living longer healthier lives were not sufficient incentive).

The biggest failure in managing the spread of AIDS in Africa has not been the ongoing deficiency of condoms but the apparently completely wasted expenditure of $1.3 billion in aid monies spent on promoting sexual abstinence instead of harm reduction over the last 15 years: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/health/american-hiv-battle...

We spent over a dollar on every person in Africa to tell them we don't think they should be having sex, in defiance of all the evidence about the inefficacy of such programs, so as to satisfy a small political faction of religious extremists who also support things like instituting the death penalty for homosexuality (https://www.academia.edu/1053858/Locating_Neocolonialism_Tra... ); meanwhile suspending other kinds of educational programs. And then we look at the low rates for condom use and we conclude that the deficiency is with the condoms? Please.

Could we and should we be working to improve condoms? Of course. Are such improvements subject to the law of diminishing returns? Also, of course. You're just not going to get paradigm shifting results through busywork, any more than you're going to get order-of-magnitude improvements in wheel design. A condom is always going to be basically an elastic tube that's closed on one end, just as a wheel is always going to be a circular structure that rotates around a central axle.

I feel for the guy in the article who got unlucky and contracted HIV, but when he's talking about people iterating on things like salt, pepper, and olive oil every year - no they're not. They market it slightly differently, the basic product has seen very little change in thousands of years - much like condoms. Unless we discover drugs that are cheap and have a broad-spectrum prophylactic effect against STDs and pregnancy, we have to be realistic about the prospect of small incremental improvements rather than great leaps forward in this area.

Re: We Should Have a Better Condom by Now

#112
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noted. If you read our "App" page, you would have seen 'sympto-thermal method of fertility awareness' mentioned at least once. Check out "Learn" for a literal book's worth of information (complete with references) about how this works. We've taken an approach of trying to ease people into this, but maybe that hasn't come across in this instance. How would you suggest we introduce the topic without scaring people off…

> sympto-thermal method of fertility awareness You're going to run smack into the wall of terminology here. The 'rhythm method' or 'calender method' was a Rome sanctioned family planning method whose only ingredient was a calendar. The fact that it had a spectacular failure rate as an anti-conceptive method must not have been lost on the promotors. But since a calendar is part of pretty much any fertility/anti-concep…

> You're talking about people that are having intercourse, the least you could do is treat them as the adults they think they are.

My intention definitely wasn't to imply that you're not an adult, so apologies if what I said offended you. My statement was simply based on hundreds of conversations I've had with individuals who immediately jump to asking "Isn't that the rhythm method?" when I explain our concept using direct, accurate, and scientific terminology.

We are, however, incredibly direct with our users.

Point taken, though.

Re: We Should Have a Better Condom by Now

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure it was clear. Government is lazy and callus about updating regulations regarding to development and testing of prophylactics. Innovative and better alternatives were taken off the market due to said regulations. The commentary was spot on. The point of the original comment was to provide bullets without lengthy justification and citation and it was upvoted. Then this "lazy" bullet was added and all the su…

Generally speaking I get the sense that HN readers are for an effective and efficient government. That's about as middle-of-the-road as you can get. For anyone interested in living in a country where there is little to no government intervention are more than welcome to move to Central Africa to see what they're missing out on.

Yeah, and people who want a strong government should move to NK!

Seriously, don't you all get tired of burning the same straw man over and over again? I'm sure you don't support every possible kind of government, including Pinochet's Chile and the Khmer Rouge. It must also be democratic, somewhat respect human rights and such, no? Likewise, people who argue against them also have conditions they believe would be necessary for a stable country. You may think they are wrong, and point out why, but just saying "look at " is not a good argument.

Re: We Should Have a Better Condom by Now

#114
post #17

An article on ebola said that the condom provides 95% protection per use. i.e. a 5% chance of infection anyway each time they are used. That's basically worthless because after 13 uses there is a 50/50 chance of infecting someone. They are more effective with HIV only because HIV is not as infective, not because the condom is more effective. So the problem with the condom is not the design, but that they are not as e…

People aren't infectious with Ebola for very long before either becoming extremely ill (and likely not up to having sex). If you're reducing the number of sex-related Ebola transmissions in a population by encouraging condom use, I think that's a pretty good thing.

At any rate, HIV is a much much larger virus than Ebola, and cannot get through micropores in the condom as easily. This contributes to the high rate of transmission prevention.

Re: We Should Have a Better Condom by Now

#116
post #33

Highly recommended: "Female Condoms" http://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/female-... Don't want to get into a bunch of inappropriate talk but suffice to say much better for both parties.

> Don't want to get into a bunch of inappropriate talk but suffice to say much better for both parties. I'd encourage you to talk. The more people know about it, the more they will use effective contraception and the fewer HIV (and other STD) infections there will be. And people who read it from you will tell others. We're all adults here; I don't think it's inappropriate.

>We're all adults here

And even if we aren't, kids have sex too!

Re: We Should Have a Better Condom by Now

#118
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's start with making them free. Are the medical/abortion costs really lower than providing everyone with unlimited plastic with a little lotion on it?

There's tons of places in most major cities that give away condoms for free. When I was in my freshman year of college, the main study room for a program I was in had a big bowl of free condoms by the exit.

There've been many people in this thread suggesting that condoms ARE already free, if you go and seek them out. It is like saying food is free when you go out of your way to select places. You'd have to know where to go and then be comfortable in grabbing a dozen free condoms there. Until you're out two weeks later. So a bi-weekly visit to your favorite free-condom location. Do you know anyone who actually does this? It makes for a great comedy sketch :)

Besides, I don't want to use condoms that came from a bowl at a public place. I remember the first time I bought a bunch of condoms at a young age, not only was it terribly embarrassing and expensive at that time (I wasn't working, try explaining to your parents you need money for sex), it wasn't fun hiding them from my parents either.

I imagine this is a bigger problem for women - imagine a mother finds a dozen condoms in her 15 year old's purse.

Re: We Should Have a Better Condom by Now

#119
I was kind of shocked that the entire article doesn't mention that Japan has basically solved this problem. They have had 0.03 mm (that's .03 MM, not 3 mm) and more recently 0.02mm polyurethane condoms for quite some time. The only negative to them is that they have to be sold in different size ranges (Normal, Large, probably there's an XL) since they are not very stretchable. Also, being so insanely thin, it takes a fair bit of skill to apply one. They are expensive, but not as expensive as a disease.

They feel so close to nothing that someone unwilling to wear one with an unknown partner is shocking to me, yet even in Japan, condom use is extremely low.

On a side note, I'm surprised that so many people take their life in their hands to slightly improve the sensory feel of sex, and yet circumcision, which removes a huge percentage of the nerve endings in the area, remains popular in the US.

Re: We Should Have a Better Condom by Now

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's start with making them free. Are the medical/abortion costs really lower than providing everyone with unlimited plastic with a little lotion on it?

If a person cannot find free condoms in the US, there is a serious problem with that person's searching. The government gave out a ton grant money that was to be spent on free condom dispensers (oddly multi-colored from one vendor). States and public health clinics will give them free in various programs. And let's not forget the machines in a huge number of gas station rest rooms across the country. Most of them are…

The people who need condoms the most, are the ones least likely to go looking. If a condom is not around, 'ah baby come on I'll just pull out.' And then when there's a baby on the way and they're both 16 or can't afford an abortion etc etc, oops. Now we have a teenage mother and a father who doesn't want to be one.

We can go around hand-waving and saying how irresponsible people are, or we can recognize how people are, were and will be and make sure they don't accidentally reproduce for no good reason.

We know how, we just need to stop expecting people to be other than they already are for a minute and start a world-wide free-condoms campaign. Where's Bill Gates, make it happen! :)

Because you know who's supporting that single mother and all the difficulty that ensues? You and I, with our tax dollars and otherwise.

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