What's the use for Bitcoin? • Hacker News Board

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#81

Post by bdamm » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 6:19 PM UTC

random28345 wrote: post #23

bdamm wrote: post #4

Useful but not on his list: * Bitcoin is excellent as a charity funding mechanism. Often I may wish to give to a charity, but don't want to give out my credit card number. I give up my tax credit, but for small handouts that's quite alright. * Micropayments. There is simply no other infrastructure that does this as well as Bitcoin does, because processing fees dominate.

> Micropayments. There is simply no other infrastructure that does this as well as Bitcoin does, because processing fees dominate. You mean aside from currency conversion fees, the transaction fees ( https://blockchain.info/charts/transaction-fees ) and the massive $6,000 to $25,000 block reward? If you do the math, bitcoin is easily the most expensive currency to transact in, and least economically efficient currenc…

Transaction fees are typically less than the equivalent of a penny. If I want to give 100 people each a nickel, how much would that cost in Bitcoin, and how much would that cost in USD via Visa? Hint: You can't even do it over Visa, because the receiver is liable for the transaction fees, which have minimums much higher than a nickel.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#82

Post by Igglyboo » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 6:20 PM UTC

random28345 wrote: post #45

chatmasta wrote: post #35

I don't understand why we even need to discuss the usefulness of Bitcoin beyond the fact that it's decentralized. Its decentralized nature, alone, is its most important attribute. Bitcoin cannot be stopped. Period. As long as multiple people can run a program on a set of computers that can connect to each other, Bitcoin can exist. If you want to receive it anonymously, you can perform services anonymously and take pa…

> Its decentralized nature, alone, is its most important attribute. Bitcoin cannot be stopped. Period. It's just as decentralized as tulip bulbs ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania ), and Bitcoin will be "stopped" when a) it is illegal to transmit or receive a blockchain (unlikely), or b) when people realize the only value Bitcoin has is in the belief that Bitcoin has value. All it takes for Bitcoin to be wort…

> when people realize the only value Bitcoin has is in the belief that Bitcoin has value.

We aren't on the gold standard anymore, that's how all currency works now.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#83

Post by bcook » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 6:20 PM UTC

Bitcoin has also pushed the art of cryptographic hash calculation forward. This helps us better understand how to protect ourselves from large-scale (government) brute-forcing of password hashes, for example.

As others have said; Bitcoin is more than just a currency.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#84

Post by jbooth » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 6:21 PM UTC

shawnb576 wrote: post #41

chisleu wrote: post #17

Bitcoin has many benefits for the average man, provided it is in wide use. Currently it isn't, so the advantages are not yet substantive. For one thing, the government doesn't control the inflation of bitcoin like it does with dollars. The fed aims for ~2.5-3% "inflation" every year, however this is inflation beyond the massive deflation that occurs year over year due to technology and efficiency increases... The sup…

By your argument the cost of food/goods are going up because we're becoming less efficient at producing it. This is not how inflation works, and that's not how deflation works. Maybe go bone up on your basic economics?

Basic economics are just, like, what the man wants you to think, man.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#85

Post by Frondo » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 6:21 PM UTC

chisleu wrote: post #39

Frondo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the government doesn't control the inflation of bitcoin like it does with dollars"-- This is exactly the thing about Bitcoin that concerns me most; it has economic implications baked into its design and operation, but We, the People, have no voice in deciding those implications. What if We, the People, want to change the inflationary/deflationary properties of the money? If we're on bitcoin, someone else made that c…

You assume that We, the People, have a say in current US economic policy. We don't. If Ee, the People, are on bitcoin, we have already made the decision to use a gold-like limited resource as a currency that will absolutely become deflationary at some point. You have no agency in government; no matter how great your use of punctuation.

Of course you have agency in government.

You do vote, don't you? You go and meet your politicians, right? You talk to your fellow citizens and organize among them, right?

I, as an individual, have put policy bugs in local politicians' ears just by showing up, shaking hands, making a persuasive case.

And that's just from a few years off-and-on involvement, no money changing hands, no campaign funding, etc.

I guess if you stay home and do nothing, then yeah, you have no agency.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#86

Post by jbooth » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 6:21 PM UTC

aboutus wrote: post #6

I derided Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general until I seriously looked into it, and then I could hardly sleep for days because of the huge implications of it. Bitcoin allows people who are unbanked, especially in developing countries, to hold and transmit money across the world at practically zero cost. Since bitcoin is decentralized, there are no middlemen like banks to take a cut or freeze your account. Besides…

So what would you place in the "legal/useful" quadrant in the author's post?

Maybe I'm just lacking imagination but it seems that bitcoin's uses are 90% speculation and 10% illegal. What's the killer app that's actually going to make it a useful currency rather than an asset resembling a dutch tulip?

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#87

Post by Igglyboo » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 6:22 PM UTC

chisleu wrote: post #39

Frondo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the government doesn't control the inflation of bitcoin like it does with dollars"-- This is exactly the thing about Bitcoin that concerns me most; it has economic implications baked into its design and operation, but We, the People, have no voice in deciding those implications. What if We, the People, want to change the inflationary/deflationary properties of the money? If we're on bitcoin, someone else made that c…

You assume that We, the People, have a say in current US economic policy. We don't. If Ee, the People, are on bitcoin, we have already made the decision to use a gold-like limited resource as a currency that will absolutely become deflationary at some point. You have no agency in government; no matter how great your use of punctuation.

We, the People, can elect representatives that do have a say in our economic policy.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#88

Post by nicholas1849 » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 6:22 PM UTC

The honest answer: tax evasion and money laundering.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#89

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 6:22 PM UTC

Igglyboo wrote: post #82

random28345 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its decentralized nature, alone, is its most important attribute. Bitcoin cannot be stopped. Period. It's just as decentralized as tulip bulbs ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania ), and Bitcoin will be "stopped" when a) it is illegal to transmit or receive a blockchain (unlikely), or b) when people realize the only value Bitcoin has is in the belief that Bitcoin has value. All it takes for Bitcoin to be wort…

> when people realize the only value Bitcoin has is in the belief that Bitcoin has value. We aren't on the gold standard anymore, that's how all currency works now.

That's how currency worked when we were on the gold standard, too.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#90

Post by smokeyj » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 6:23 PM UTC

quinnchr wrote: post #25

aboutus wrote: post #6

I derided Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general until I seriously looked into it, and then I could hardly sleep for days because of the huge implications of it. Bitcoin allows people who are unbanked, especially in developing countries, to hold and transmit money across the world at practically zero cost. Since bitcoin is decentralized, there are no middlemen like banks to take a cut or freeze your account. Besides…

Except the unbanked have been transmitting money across the world outside of banks for a few centuries now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala I'm not so sure Bitcoin is a ground breaking change for the unbanked in developing countries, especially when the hawala market is substantially bigger and already widely used.

You describe the Western Union of bitcoin. The game changer will be the Nasdaq of bitcoin. The frictionless issuance of stocks bonds and dividends will change everything. Operating agreements will be codified in software and organizations can operate entirely transparently with a degree of accountability never before seen.

Why would this be cool? Communities can come together and finance join ventures that were previously too small to be viable (incorporating, compliance, lawyers, bribes, etc). Money can now be pooled and organized in a way that mitigates the risk of theft and corruption. While the software isn't ready for this today, I think it's a short matter of time before we get there.