What's the use for Bitcoin? • Hacker News Board

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#31

Post by Frondo » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 5:41 PM UTC

chisleu wrote: post #17

Bitcoin has many benefits for the average man, provided it is in wide use. Currently it isn't, so the advantages are not yet substantive. For one thing, the government doesn't control the inflation of bitcoin like it does with dollars. The fed aims for ~2.5-3% "inflation" every year, however this is inflation beyond the massive deflation that occurs year over year due to technology and efficiency increases... The sup…

"the government doesn't control the inflation of bitcoin like it does with dollars"--

This is exactly the thing about Bitcoin that concerns me most; it has economic implications baked into its design and operation, but We, the People, have no voice in deciding those implications.

What if We, the People, want to change the inflationary/deflationary properties of the money? If we're on bitcoin, someone else made that choice for you, and you have no recourse.

I'm not at all comfortable giving away that kind of agency; after such a long arc toward greater democracy, it's hard to see bitcoin as anything but a substantial step away from democratic governance.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#32

Post by cporios » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 5:41 PM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #12

cporios wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problems Bitcoin claims to be trying to solve were already solved by the banks a while back. Bitcoin (according to its website) claims to provide instant P2P transactions and very low processing fees. International bank transactions take days or weeks and have very high fees. But even more importantly, bitcoins do not require a bank account. All it requires is internet or text messaging access. This is very imp…

> International bank transactions take days or weeks and have very high fees. Not really. I mean, I'm sure they can if you're moving millions, but small transactions are pretty much instant, even internationally, at least between modern banks in 2 countries. And the fees (if there even are any) are negligible. Anyhow, that's my experience with my bank. I do know that American banks can be behind the times a bit...

I live in Europe and a wire transfer from/to Greece/UK/Germany takes at least two working days for small amounts, sometimes up to a week. All my friends have similar experiences. Only transferring money between two bank accounts of the same bank is indeed instant.

Fees are not negligible at all: Sending 200 pounds from the UK to US costs an average of 20 pounds or 10% according to https://transferwise.com/transfer-money-to-the-usa.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#33

Post by spectrum1234 » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

spectrum1234 wrote: post #22

Bitcoin is all about the underlying PROTOCOL, not the currency itself. Note that the currency only has value because the protocol is sound. What is the protocol? Basically it allows you to trust a network in which you don't have to trust any participants. Think about that for a minute - THIS IS A PHENOMENAL ACHIEVEMENT. Use cases for bitcoin? Who cares. Use cases for the protocol? Countless. Just give it time. Its ex…

Also, does anyone else find it hilarious that so many of these articles talk about bitcoin in the "now" even though it was invented yesterday in the grand scheme of things?

If you aren't gonna at least address this there is no way I'm respecting your critique sorry.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#34

Post by barce » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

jjbiotech wrote: post #26

random28345 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is for Criminals, Cowards, and Crazies. Criminals, who find it useful as a mechanism for transferring and storing income from illegal activities. Cowards, who want to hide behind a cryptocurrency to protect themselves from social and government problems that can only be solved through education and democracy. And crazies who think that Obama is a secret atheist muslim who is fighting a secret war of confiscat…

Physical currency such as gold or cash is for Criminals, Cowards, and Crazies. Criminals, who find it useful as a mechanism for transferring and storing income from illegal activities. Cowards, who want to hide behind physical currency to protect themselves from social and government problems that can only be solved through education and democracy. And crazies who think that Obama is a secret atheist muslim who is fi…

Brilliant retort which exposes the rhetorical fallacies in the comment: ad hominem, and, for lack of a better turn of phrase, a false trichotomy.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#35

Post by chatmasta » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

I don't understand why we even need to discuss the usefulness of Bitcoin beyond the fact that it's decentralized. Its decentralized nature, alone, is its most important attribute. Bitcoin cannot be stopped. Period.

As long as multiple people can run a program on a set of computers that can connect to each other, Bitcoin can exist. If you want to receive it anonymously, you can perform services anonymously and take payment in Bitcoin. After that, yes your transactions are on the blockchain, but if nobody knows you provided the services to receive the original Bitcoin, then they cannot trace your subsequent transactions back to you without relying on outside variables.

Yes, the regulatory environment and legal status of Bitcoin will affect its adoption as a mainstream currency. If large online merchants begin accepting it, and the price stabilizes to encourage spending, we will naturally see Bitcoin emerge as a useful payment platform. However, neither regulation nor legal status has any impact on the resiliency of the Bitcoin network. Bitcoin is decentralized and mathematical. It cannot be stopped or regulated with any real promise of enforcement.

Bitcoin, by its very nature, is here to stay. Either we can adopt it into the mainstream and build tooling around it to make criminal activity inadvisable, or we can regulate it, discourage innovation, and let the criminals take over the network. Either way, the network remains. Bitcoin is decentralized! It only requires software and network connections.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#36

Post by dwaltrip » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

natrius wrote: post #10

Bitcoin's killer app is its function as a store of value. It's hard to see this when there are plenty of things that are storing value better at the moment, like traditional currencies and assets. But I don't think that will hold indefinitely (especially given our asset bubble), and that will lead people to look for ledgers with predictable supply, like gold and Bitcoin. Then again, maybe I'm crazy.

Spot on. Used with its full potential (multi-sig, time-lock, etc), and due to its fixed supply, bitcoin offers the most secure (but not the least volatile) way to store units of account. It provides the by far the most protection against malicious actors who would attempt to wrest control from the asset holder. How much this actually matters to most people (and thus its affect on the price of BTC) is an open question.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#37

Post by CJefferson » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

One of my biggest problems with bitcoin is that half the bitcoins which will ever be created are already in circulation. That means the rise of bitcoin is just going to create a new "1%", who own the majority of the currency.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#38

Post by random28345 » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

jjbiotech wrote: post #26

random28345 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is for Criminals, Cowards, and Crazies. Criminals, who find it useful as a mechanism for transferring and storing income from illegal activities. Cowards, who want to hide behind a cryptocurrency to protect themselves from social and government problems that can only be solved through education and democracy. And crazies who think that Obama is a secret atheist muslim who is fighting a secret war of confiscat…

Physical currency such as gold or cash is for Criminals, Cowards, and Crazies. Criminals, who find it useful as a mechanism for transferring and storing income from illegal activities. Cowards, who want to hide behind physical currency to protect themselves from social and government problems that can only be solved through education and democracy. And crazies who think that Obama is a secret atheist muslim who is fi…

Haha, because currency issued by a central reserve bank with historical origins in letters of credit and promissory notes is totally just like a cryptocurrency designed for illegal activity and backed by the wasteful expenditure of millions of dollars of electricity. It's the same thing, and you're so clever for noticing.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#39

Post by chisleu » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #31

chisleu wrote: post #17

Bitcoin has many benefits for the average man, provided it is in wide use. Currently it isn't, so the advantages are not yet substantive. For one thing, the government doesn't control the inflation of bitcoin like it does with dollars. The fed aims for ~2.5-3% "inflation" every year, however this is inflation beyond the massive deflation that occurs year over year due to technology and efficiency increases... The sup…

"the government doesn't control the inflation of bitcoin like it does with dollars"-- This is exactly the thing about Bitcoin that concerns me most; it has economic implications baked into its design and operation, but We, the People, have no voice in deciding those implications. What if We, the People, want to change the inflationary/deflationary properties of the money? If we're on bitcoin, someone else made that c…

You assume that We, the People, have a say in current US economic policy. We don't.

If Ee, the People, are on bitcoin, we have already made the decision to use a gold-like limited resource as a currency that will absolutely become deflationary at some point.

You have no agency in government; no matter how great your use of punctuation.

Re: What's the use for Bitcoin?

#40

Post by ikeboy » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

georgyo wrote: post #15

cporios wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problems Bitcoin claims to be trying to solve were already solved by the banks a while back. Bitcoin (according to its website) claims to provide instant P2P transactions and very low processing fees. International bank transactions take days or weeks and have very high fees. But even more importantly, bitcoins do not require a bank account. All it requires is internet or text messaging access. This is very imp…

It still requires a bank account, just a difference sense of the word. If someone only has a phone, they need to store their bitcoin somewhere, and its unlikely to be their phone. So whoever is holding their bitcoin is acting as their bank.

Check out https://mycelium.com/bitcoinwallet.