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American students head to Germany for free college

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Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#111

Post by khabaal »

As a german who works for a german university, i would like to point out that studying is actually not totally free.

Here at the University of applied sciences in Münster, you would have to pay a total 235€ every six month, consisting of a social contribution of 85.44€ and a student body contribution of 145.75€, for which you will get a ticket for free travel by bus or by train inside North Rhine-Westphalia for the whole six month. Some people in here just register because of that ticket. :D

To study in germany, you normally just need to prove that you have a specific amount of money to survive, pay for a flat, food and health insurance. And thats it.

As the website stated, we need skilled immigrants, because with a birth rate of just 1.3 childs per woman, the germans are slowly dying out, not to mention that our society is getting older and older like the one in japan. Attracting foreign students with a nearly free college is a great and very cheap way of getting highly skilled workers, its makes perfect sense.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#112

Post by ptaipale »

Amezarak wrote: post #105
iamjdg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

something to strive for no? i think of countries export to import ratios like personal finance income vs expenditures. if you spend more than you make, where we you get the money to reinvest in yourself. you'll borrow it until you can't make the minimum payments and then default. There are many reasons why the US does not have free college (taxes too low, universities are run like business now, etc.) but running huge…

> something to strive for no? No. If everyone strives to be a net exporter, you quickly end up with a race to the bottom. > i think of countries export to import ratios like personal finance income vs expenditures. if you spend more than you make, where we you get the money to reinvest in yourself. you'll borrow it until you can't make the minimum payments and then default. This is the wrong way to think about it. Th…

> It's just an outflow of currency, which is not particularly harmful to countries printing their own currency.

However, Germany - and other € countries - are not printing their own currency.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#113

Post by TheBeardKing »

Amezarak wrote: post #105
iamjdg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

something to strive for no? i think of countries export to import ratios like personal finance income vs expenditures. if you spend more than you make, where we you get the money to reinvest in yourself. you'll borrow it until you can't make the minimum payments and then default. There are many reasons why the US does not have free college (taxes too low, universities are run like business now, etc.) but running huge…

> something to strive for no? No. If everyone strives to be a net exporter, you quickly end up with a race to the bottom. > i think of countries export to import ratios like personal finance income vs expenditures. if you spend more than you make, where we you get the money to reinvest in yourself. you'll borrow it until you can't make the minimum payments and then default. This is the wrong way to think about it. Th…

There may still be too much emphasis on 4-year college requirements for most vocations in the US. Mediocre students are being pushed towards college, where they may or may not graduate, and end up with debt even with federal and state subsidies. Worst case is not finishing and having tons of debt with nothing to show for it. These same people would be much better off with a 2-year vocational degree, and a job market in greater need of those skills than your community college IT or business degree will find.

I've heard the German educational system steers students in these directions early in high school. When I was in high school, we used to have vocational and college prep paths, but they've since ditched that in an effort to "leave no child behind." Now we have a glut of students graduating from community college in a market with low demand for their degrees.

Let's admit that except for being able to transfer those credits to a college of higher prestige, and being granted the same degree from there, community college is of little value. In my area, I can tell you for a fact that the same science and math courses vary greatly in difficulty between the private engineering school I attended, and the local state school. Full-time students knew of this loophole, and took some of these harder classes down the road at the state school.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#114

Post by madengr »

gambiting wrote: post #57
Pirate-of-SV wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast. Could you be a little more specific? The size of Europe, America and Asia is too huge for statements like that. There are definitely universities in Europe that are more similar to some in the US than other universities in Europe. I'm a student in Sweden and I have not experienced anyth…

I know how engineering courses look like in Poland. Universities are 100% free, but they have absolutely no qualms about kicking out weaker students. Electrical engineering course at any of the largest universities in Poland will enroll 300-400 people,but 200 of them will fail the first year. The last year is usually finished by In contrast, I studied in UK and getting through university at an Engineering course was…

That ratio is the same as any EE program in the USA. 66% of the class will flunk out within 2 years. From my experience, only about 20% remained at the end of 4 years.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#115

Post by ownagefool »

purplelobster wrote: post #47
doyoulikeworms wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public university used to be cheap. In the 1960's, tuition & fees at a UC school was less than $2000 (2015 dollars) per year. In the 1950's, it was less than $750 per year.[1][2] Today, tuition & fees at a UC will cost you $15,000 per year. In order to completely pay for tuition and fees, the state of California would have to increase revenue $3 billion per year. Or increase tax revenues by just 3%.[1][3] I, as a cit…

The thing is, PPP is only for things you have to actually buy. Where I live, salaries and PPP is lower than in the US where I lived before. But it's not that simple. Does PPP take into account that I got my 5 year education for free? Actually I received roughly $400/month to go to university. Which also means I don't need a college fund for my kids. Does it reflect that health care is free and I don't have to even th…

You'll actually find it's pretty complicated to measure earnings in Europe. In London you could happily be earning $200,000 - $300,000 with IT skills, avoid tax, keep 90% of that, and have the state benefits.

Simply stated, because of the high levels of tax and rife avoidance, it's probably quite difficult to quantify earnings in London, for example.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#116

Post by iamjdg »

Amezarak wrote: post #105
iamjdg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

something to strive for no? i think of countries export to import ratios like personal finance income vs expenditures. if you spend more than you make, where we you get the money to reinvest in yourself. you'll borrow it until you can't make the minimum payments and then default. There are many reasons why the US does not have free college (taxes too low, universities are run like business now, etc.) but running huge…

> something to strive for no? No. If everyone strives to be a net exporter, you quickly end up with a race to the bottom. > i think of countries export to import ratios like personal finance income vs expenditures. if you spend more than you make, where we you get the money to reinvest in yourself. you'll borrow it until you can't make the minimum payments and then default. This is the wrong way to think about it. Th…

thanks Amezarak, good points.

i think striving for net exporter is only a race to the bottom if you use one tool to get there. but if a country innovates their way there, is it not a race to the top?

germany finally bent a bit letting the eurozone printing money. i like to see it as germany trying to steer the eurozone into real economic growth rather than fake growth (unleashing new money at a low interest rate(. everyone is applauding the us econmic recovery, but it is not real growth, and they will have to pay the debt piper some day.

i generally agree universities are bloated and to expensive, gravy trains for some, huge financial burdens to most.

i was a community college kid who transferred to a 4 year.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#118

Post by bpires »

khabaal wrote: post #111

As a german who works for a german university, i would like to point out that studying is actually not totally free. Here at the University of applied sciences in Münster, you would have to pay a total 235€ every six month, consisting of a social contribution of 85.44€ and a student body contribution of 145.75€, for which you will get a ticket for free travel by bus or by train inside North Rhine-Westphalia for the w…

It is not about it being completely free. The whole point is how 235€ or even 1000€ per semester is nothing compared to tens of thousands americans pay in tuiton. Top universities in the US like MIT and Stanford charge over $40000 per year. With half of that you could comfortably live as a student in Germany for a year with all expenses paid. I live as a student in Germany on 650€/mo. That's less than $10000 a year.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#119

Post by galfarragem »

tedunangst wrote: post #106
galfarragem wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in any field. Great comment. Anyway I will never leave Europe for US/Canada/Australia[1]. I've visited some family in the latter and I feel that the advantages of these countries are not enough to make me live there. Exchanging peace of mind and a huge dec…

I think you have been misinformed about the main goal of many early American colonizers. Also, that's a rather tenuous connection to suburbs. US suburbs mostly developed 200 years after colonization. And 100 years after London (that's "old world", right?) invented suburbs.

I agree with you, suburbs were not invented in the "new world" but these countries made them popular, probably with the individual dream of a better life and particular conditions as land availability or cheap oil that leaded to the development of single housing to almost everybody.

I'm sure you agree also that suburbs in "old world" (Europe) don't have such a massive presence that they completely imply a certain lifestyle.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#120

Post by aros »

galfarragem wrote: post #41
Htsthbjig wrote: post #24

Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast. I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in a…

I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in any field. Great comment. Anyway I will never leave Europe for US/Canada/Australia[1]. I've visited some family in the latter and I feel that the advantages of these countries are not enough to make me live there. Exchanging peace of mind and a huge dec…

You're quite ignorant. I suggest you visit these places prior to placing judgement on them.

The US and Canada are vast geographically and culturally spanning countries with an absolutely huge and diverse population. To simply say that everyone in these countries is a consumer-whore is inaccurate and dishonest.

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