Tesla is a Battery Company • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla is a Battery Company

#21

Post by jeremyrwelch » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 1:38 AM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #18

Musk has previously said in an interview that Li-Ion batteries were at $600 / kwh, but when he looked at the component and manufacturing costs they were at $100 / kwh. Somehow the entire supply chain has piked up a lot of overhead, and he realized it would be possible to reduce that. At those prices, Model-S battery pack costs are between $36k and $51k! When I realized that, I came to conclusion that Tesla Motors cou…

Great points here. I think Tesla's move to open source their patents was for these reasons exactly.

Re: Tesla is a Battery Company

#22

Post by smt88 » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 1:39 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #17

smt88 wrote: post #7

Only as much as Apple was a HDD company with the release of the first iPod. Yes, their underlying hardware was necessary for the product to be revolutionary, and it was also something that no one else could produce at the time. But, like Tesla, Apple added a layer of design and marketing that made for a revolutionary UX, as well. So I agree that Tesla is a battery company, but I don't think that that makes them less…

Apple never manufactured their own iPod hard drives. That's where the similarity ends. Advancing the state of the art in batteries is essential for Tesla to remain competitive. For Apple, it was adding content and services.

Apple was (and still is, in some cases) a leader in miniaturization. They made a product viable that was never viable before.

Other drives were too big, expensive, and power-hungry. Apple made the iPod a common device because it was the first MP3 player with more storage than most people would need, it only cost a few hundred, and its battery lasted a long time.

Apple continued to compete by getting even better at miniaturization, like when they introduced the iPhone.

Eventually we're going to be arguing semantics, but my point still stands. Being the leader at manufacturing the boring internal components was necessary for both companies to provide the product that we perceive to be their core competency.

Edit: I forgot to address your point about manufacturing. They may not have manufactured the drives or had a unique technology, but they had advantages in manufacturing that no one else had. Tesla seems to be the same way, from what I can tell.

Re: Tesla is a Battery Company

#23

Post by thrownaway2424 » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 1:41 AM UTC

I don't get this article. The battery in a Tesla Model S is literally a huge array of Panasonic flashlight batteries. It is an off-the-shelf catalog item you can order from Panasonic. Admittedly, you should probably have prior arrangements before ordering millions.

The central insight of the Tesla founders was that people really will pay $85000 for an electric car. The other auto makers didn't believe that.

Re: Tesla is a Battery Company

#24

Post by lugg » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 1:43 AM UTC

happertiger wrote: post #11

If Tesla executes, they are going to be the leading company in a number of industries, of which battery technology and manufacturing is one of them. They are also leaders in direct sales, JIT manufacturing, motor design, any one of which is a disruptive innovation channel they could monetize, all in the service of building electric cars. Tesla is an energy company, a battery company, a car company, etc, just as GE or…

I simply cannot wait for the biography. I really find this story to be more interesting than any other in similar vein.

I really want to know did he start out with this plan or did he simply see batteries as being the easiest thing to improve on by multiples compared to alternatives. Perhaps better said, there are many parts to a car that could be innovated on to such great improvements but the battery in electric cars really needed to be improved by an order of magnitude to make them competitive with petrol power.

Was it that fact that drove him to move into the global space using batteries or was moving global going to happen with whatever he needed to do to improve over the competition so much?

Re: Tesla is a Battery Company

#25

Post by jeremyrwelch » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 1:45 AM UTC

happertiger wrote: post #11

If Tesla executes, they are going to be the leading company in a number of industries, of which battery technology and manufacturing is one of them. They are also leaders in direct sales, JIT manufacturing, motor design, any one of which is a disruptive innovation channel they could monetize, all in the service of building electric cars. Tesla is an energy company, a battery company, a car company, etc, just as GE or…

My point with this post is that their business hinges on Battery production and tech more than any other component, and thus the lead they've created in this space matters more than any of their other innovations.

But you're right, their execution on multiple fronts is truly unreal.

Re: Tesla is a Battery Company

#26

Post by pbreit » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 1:45 AM UTC

Article fails to mention that Tesla has actually stated that it intends to market a home battery and that many believe this is the product that Elon referenced recently.

Re: Tesla is a Battery Company

#27

Post by themodelplumber » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 1:50 AM UTC

Totally ignorant of the tech here, but could they now do Netflix for Batteries? $9 / mo. gets you all the AA, AAA, D cells you require?

Re: Tesla is a Battery Company

#28

Post by gsnedders » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 1:52 AM UTC

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #23

I don't get this article. The battery in a Tesla Model S is literally a huge array of Panasonic flashlight batteries. It is an off-the-shelf catalog item you can order from Panasonic. Admittedly, you should probably have prior arrangements before ordering millions. The central insight of the Tesla founders was that people really will pay $85000 for an electric car. The other auto makers didn't believe that.

And there's some deal with Panasonic for the Gigafactory as well — it sounds very much like it'll be manufacturing stuff that's basically Panasonic IP to start with.

Re: Tesla is a Battery Company

#29

Post by r00fus » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 1:52 AM UTC

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #23

I don't get this article. The battery in a Tesla Model S is literally a huge array of Panasonic flashlight batteries. It is an off-the-shelf catalog item you can order from Panasonic. Admittedly, you should probably have prior arrangements before ordering millions. The central insight of the Tesla founders was that people really will pay $85000 for an electric car. The other auto makers didn't believe that.

You say electric car like it's some souped up Prius (I own a Prius).

The Tesla Model-S is an amazing vehicle that's not only electric but amazing to look at and drive.

As an aspirational status symbol it's got a hell of a lot of cachet 3 years after it's introduction. That's a feat of product marketing and engineering.

Re: Tesla is a Battery Company

#30

Post by iamcurious » Thu, Apr 02, 2015, 1:54 AM UTC

jeremyrwelch wrote: post #15

iamcurious wrote: post #3

Also, wasn't Musk going to do a phd studying batteries before deciding that the internet was a better move for him at the time?

Didn't know about this. Source?

https://www.iop.org/careers/working-life/profiles/page_57723...

How did your career progress from there?

I was offered a place at Stanford University to do postgraduate research into high-energy-density capacitors. But then the Internet came along, and I wanted a piece of the action.