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Smarter programming of stoplights could improve efficiency of urban traffic

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Re: Smarter programming of stoplights could improve efficiency of urban traffic

#11
post #7

With all the image processing cameras out there, and the cameras already mounted on the traffic lights, it boggles the mind that nobody is making traffic light controllers that optimize traffic based on current conditions and a cost function. For example, if 5 cars are coming from one direction, turn the light red for the 1 car on the cross street. I'm pretty fed up with the light perversely stopping the 5 cars at th…

While this sounds great on paper you have to remember that traffic signals are absolutely mission critical components to the traffic system and what you are describing pushes them to the cutting edge of what many might consider "experimental" technology. There can be no trial and error. Also remember that traffic systems are not developed by start ups that can iterate quickly with seemingly endless funding and/or no…

While traffic lights are mission critical, we can absolutely make it fool proof, the first time. It's actually not very difficult.

Don't forget, many lights right now are using weight sensors in the ground (SEE EDIT-2), A. that is very costly, B. They are prone to damage...a lot of the time, and C. with current technology in cameras, I'd say they will be more reliable and give better information about on-coming cars from all directions to the traffic light.

It is quite simple to say, if the conditions are bad for visibility, or the camera is inoperable, or even a bird is sitting in front of it, whatever it is, the simple fall back can be 'dumb'. A timer. As they have been for many many years.

I've thought about this a lot and imagine in the future that each intersection will actually be able to communicate with the on board systems of autonomous vehicles and create a very efficient system. At that point, many intersections would not even require vehicles to stop. It would regulate the speed of each vehicle so each one could go through with minimal energy impact. ...Sure...it might be a 'close your eyes' moment...but regardless, we can make it safer than how it is today...with humans making the stop/go decisions.

Whatever upgraded systems in traffic lights we move to, we have to start thinking about autonomous driving. It will be a HUGE leap forward in not only getting around efficiently, but getting around quicker! Human driving tendencies are inherently inefficient. The slinky effect on roads and highways is quite annoying.

EDIT: Another 'efficient' thing we can do is place short range charges into the ground near the stopping point at lights. This is down the road when a majority of cars on the road are fully electric. But as the vehicles sits at a light, it would charge. The power would be obtained through using photocells on the surface, so when a car is not currently waiting on top of it, they are building a charge. This of course would require the price of batteries to go way down to be feasible, but essentially, all forms of consumer transportation will be powered by solar.

EDIT-2: I'm wrong about weight sensors, I actually did not know about inductive loops at lights. TIL. Either way, they have a limited range of detection.

Re: Smarter programming of stoplights could improve efficiency of urban traffic

#12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this sounds great on paper you have to remember that traffic signals are absolutely mission critical components to the traffic system and what you are describing pushes them to the cutting edge of what many might consider "experimental" technology. There can be no trial and error. Also remember that traffic systems are not developed by start ups that can iterate quickly with seemingly endless funding and/or no…

While traffic lights are mission critical, we can absolutely make it fool proof, the first time. It's actually not very difficult. Don't forget, many lights right now are using weight sensors in the ground (SEE EDIT-2), A. that is very costly, B. They are prone to damage...a lot of the time, and C. with current technology in cameras, I'd say they will be more reliable and give better information about on-coming cars…

I'm pretty certain there no lights that have "weight" sensors. The sensors for triggering signal changes use large induction loops to detect when ferrous metal (a car frame) is near by.

Re: Smarter programming of stoplights could improve efficiency of urban traffic

#13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this sounds great on paper you have to remember that traffic signals are absolutely mission critical components to the traffic system and what you are describing pushes them to the cutting edge of what many might consider "experimental" technology. There can be no trial and error. Also remember that traffic systems are not developed by start ups that can iterate quickly with seemingly endless funding and/or no…

While traffic lights are mission critical, we can absolutely make it fool proof, the first time. It's actually not very difficult. Don't forget, many lights right now are using weight sensors in the ground (SEE EDIT-2), A. that is very costly, B. They are prone to damage...a lot of the time, and C. with current technology in cameras, I'd say they will be more reliable and give better information about on-coming cars…

I agree with you that the cameras could be made fool proof, or close enough with a fall back at least that it would still be beneficial. I just wanted to point out that the vast majority of car sensors use an inductive loop which is far less prone to damage and relatively inexpensive compared to weight sensors.

Re: Smarter programming of stoplights could improve efficiency of urban traffic

#14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this sounds great on paper you have to remember that traffic signals are absolutely mission critical components to the traffic system and what you are describing pushes them to the cutting edge of what many might consider "experimental" technology. There can be no trial and error. Also remember that traffic systems are not developed by start ups that can iterate quickly with seemingly endless funding and/or no…

Sounds like a startup needs to start start developing and licensing traffic light software to municipalities. Seems reasonable enough to me.

That's not a terrible idea but once again you run into the issues of reliability and budget. At the end of the day you need to convince city officials to spend what little money they have remaining in their budget on your new system because it offers a greater value than all of their other proposed upgrades to the city AND that what you have is as reliable or better than the current system they have in place. This means asking them to trust a small company they've never heard of to manage the transit systems for their city and potentially drop contracts with companies that they have been working with for a very long time (remember this is politics). Also keep in mind that software or hardware failure in these systems could result in multiple fatalities. I'm not trying to be a naysayer, it's just important to recognize that getting something like this implemented is not as easy as convincing consumers to try/buy your product.

The best bet would probably be to get a forward-thinking city to experiment with this in a small area and then go from there.

Re: Smarter programming of stoplights could improve efficiency of urban traffic

#15
post #2

I sometimes get the feeling that traffic signals in my home town (Chicago) are designed to maximize ticket and speed camera revenue, rather than improve the flow.

> I sometimes get the feeling that traffic signals in my home town (Chicago) are designed to maximize ticket and speed camera revenue, rather than improve the flow.

You get that feeling because it's true:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/watchdog/redlight/ct-yell...

Re: Smarter programming of stoplights could improve efficiency of urban traffic

#16
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this sounds great on paper you have to remember that traffic signals are absolutely mission critical components to the traffic system and what you are describing pushes them to the cutting edge of what many might consider "experimental" technology. There can be no trial and error. Also remember that traffic systems are not developed by start ups that can iterate quickly with seemingly endless funding and/or no…

While traffic lights are mission critical, we can absolutely make it fool proof, the first time. It's actually not very difficult. Don't forget, many lights right now are using weight sensors in the ground (SEE EDIT-2), A. that is very costly, B. They are prone to damage...a lot of the time, and C. with current technology in cameras, I'd say they will be more reliable and give better information about on-coming cars…

Certifying and proving such a system was actually fool proof would be quite costly though, as in house certification would probably not satisfy safety regulations.

Side note: most lights use inductive loops not weight sensors for vehicle detection.

Re: Smarter programming of stoplights could improve efficiency of urban traffic

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While traffic lights are mission critical, we can absolutely make it fool proof, the first time. It's actually not very difficult. Don't forget, many lights right now are using weight sensors in the ground (SEE EDIT-2), A. that is very costly, B. They are prone to damage...a lot of the time, and C. with current technology in cameras, I'd say they will be more reliable and give better information about on-coming cars…

Certifying and proving such a system was actually fool proof would be quite costly though, as in house certification would probably not satisfy safety regulations. Side note: most lights use inductive loops not weight sensors for vehicle detection.

Oh I agree. Building a prototype and proof of concept alone would go along way to getting more on board.

I think the biggest challenge though is getting municipalities to replace current systems. They have already invested millions and millions to get the current traffic system up. It would almost have to be the next cycle of traffic lights, when the old ones get replaced (depreciate fully). And of course, cities would probably want to do their own independent testing/study...

It would be sweet to start seeing them appear on new construction though.

Re: Smarter programming of stoplights could improve efficiency of urban traffic

#19

With all the image processing cameras out there, and the cameras already mounted on the traffic lights, it boggles the mind that nobody is making traffic light controllers that optimize traffic based on current conditions and a cost function. For example, if 5 cars are coming from one direction, turn the light red for the 1 car on the cross street. I'm pretty fed up with the light perversely stopping the 5 cars at th…

This exists in plenty of places. See the comment below yours.

Re: Smarter programming of stoplights could improve efficiency of urban traffic

#20
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this sounds great on paper you have to remember that traffic signals are absolutely mission critical components to the traffic system and what you are describing pushes them to the cutting edge of what many might consider "experimental" technology. There can be no trial and error. Also remember that traffic systems are not developed by start ups that can iterate quickly with seemingly endless funding and/or no…

Sounds like a startup needs to start start developing and licensing traffic light software to municipalities. Seems reasonable enough to me.

This sort of local development work sounds like a project for Bill Gates.
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