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Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

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Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#61

Post by akgerber »

dirktheman wrote: post #39

As a dutchman visiting New York City a couple years back, naturally I rented a bike. A couple of random observations: - NYC in theory is ideal for traversing by bicycle. Congested yet flat, much like (old) Amsterdam - It's not so much the lack of bike lanes in the city, it's more the ignorance of drivers that poses a threat. I can't tell you how many times I was cut off, simply because the driver didn't see me or did…

NYC traffic and cycling is in a state of transition. Only now, after years of advocacy, are we starting to get the NYPD to even think about enforcing traffic laws, and likewise it took tons of work to get even a limited number of speed enforcement cameras to ticket drivers going over 10mph over the speed limit.

Likewise, many city cyclists still practice the lawless messenger/madman style that was necessary to survive in a city with no bike lanes and no traffic law enforcement, and others revert back to it after being cut off by turning cars and riding past 10 blocks of a bike lane being blocked by cabs and cops and ...

We're making steady progress in NYC, but we're not there yet. It seems like we're making a dent, with some actual enforcement of speed laws taking place, and widespread media concern about dangerous driving and people being killed in crashes. CitiBike bikeshare is a normal part of the city transit system, and now has competent management that are fixing its software and investing in its expansion.

As you note, there's a gap in the East Side bike path due to the UN Headquarters. It's being filled, but since the UN Headquarters is sovereign territory, it's a very complex process.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#62

Post by chronolitus »

victorhooi wrote: post #40
D_Alex wrote: post #26

I don't know about Vancouver, but here in Australia you must wear a bike helmet when riding a bike. That stops many people riding bikes (please do not argue about this, it has been done to death), and unfortunately has - probably - had the unintended effect of worsening public health. The pictures from the article show not a single person wearing a helmet... there is a lesson here I'd like the Australian regulaors to…

I also live in Australia, and am an avid cyclist - I ride to work every day, and I'm sorry but no , I strongly disagree. There is nothing wrong with wearing a helmet - I've come off my bike before and its made a potentially very bad situation painful rather than life-threatening - and really look, on the list of worries of cyclist, having to wear a helmet is the least of our worries. (The law about "not riding on a f…

Note that he's not arguing against the use of helmets.

only on giving people the choice: feel safer with one, wear one, if you don't don't.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#63

Post by akgerber »

Derbasti wrote: post #23

Often, the problem with US cities is that they use a lot of space for parking lots. In order to be practical for walking and cycling, businesses have to be very densely packed. Having a parking lot in front of every business spaces them too far apart for cycling or walking. Thus, adding parking lots necessitates cars, and cars necessitate parking lots. A vicious cycle.

In most American cities that aren't New York or San Francisco, half the downtown has been torn down to build parking lots: http://usa.streetsblog.org/category/special-reports/parking-...

And, of course, most post-WWII commercial development is either malls, strip malls, or big boxes.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#64

Post by victorhooi »

Symbiote wrote: post #42
victorhooi wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also live in Australia, and am an avid cyclist - I ride to work every day, and I'm sorry but no , I strongly disagree. There is nothing wrong with wearing a helmet - I've come off my bike before and its made a potentially very bad situation painful rather than life-threatening - and really look, on the list of worries of cyclist, having to wear a helmet is the least of our worries. (The law about "not riding on a f…

What were you doing to fall off your bike? I haven't fallen off since I was a teenager, messing around. I trip over while walking more often, and have been a passenger in two car accidents. People in many countries don't feel unsafe cycling, so don't wear a helmet. I think the statistics back them up, in countries like the Netherlands.

I was going down a steep hill near my parent's place, with a downhill MB?

New hydraulic disc brakes (Avid Codes, I think), happened to brake on the front a little too hard, and not enough on the rear.

I suppose it really depends on how much you ride - if you ride a lot, eventually you're going to have a scrape (hopefully minor). You can't predict everything that's going to happen on the road.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#65

Post by TarpitCarnivore »

coloroadie wrote: post #49

One more: Most Dutch don't feel the need to dress in bright colored lycra uniforms and ride $6,000 racing bicycles simply to commute to work. I'm American and an amateur racer, but I wear normal clothing when commuting to work. I'm not sure why so many Americans feel the need to "kit up" for the daily commute. I think it actually turns a lot of would-be commuters off.

> I'm not sure why so many Americans feel the need to "kit up" for the daily commute. I think it actually turns a lot of would-be commuters off.

I think it comes down to distance/time on the bike, for some, but others probably think they have to wear it if they're cycling. But that annoyance goes beyond commuters.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#66

Post by victorhooi »

chronolitus wrote: post #62
victorhooi wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also live in Australia, and am an avid cyclist - I ride to work every day, and I'm sorry but no , I strongly disagree. There is nothing wrong with wearing a helmet - I've come off my bike before and its made a potentially very bad situation painful rather than life-threatening - and really look, on the list of worries of cyclist, having to wear a helmet is the least of our worries. (The law about "not riding on a f…

Note that he's not arguing against the use of helmets. only on giving people the choice: feel safer with one, wear one, if you don't don't.

It's like seatbelts - I don't know what the legislation is where you are, but over here (Australia), they are very much mandatory. The fine for not wearing your seatbelt is quite hefty.

Sure, you can argue that it's a bit nanny-state (and I know in certain countries, that's not a very popular stance), but it's also a bit of public health/safety.

Yes, sure, it's not as convenient wearing a seatbelt all the time, or wearing a helmet all the time, but over here, where we have government healthcare, it would probably cost them additional money if they had to cover potentially preventable accidents.

Also, I don't disagree that head accidents aren't the most common bike injury.

However, think about it - you graze your knees, or you break your arm - they're painful but not usually life threatening.

You hit your head, get a concussion, suffer some kind of brain damage - you are very much screwed.

Guy at my church, his brother in law is a cyclist. He got attacked by magpies, fell off and suffered a head injury. He can't work at the moment, and is in rehab at home.

Sure, the chance may be low, but do you really want to take it?

I would glad take a grazed knee over a head injury any day of the year. Hence why helmets are mandatory here, and not say, knee guards.

And if the government if funding your healthcare, you can bet it costs them a pretty dime to care for you for the rest of your life, if you were to suffer a disability from a head injury.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#67

Post by victorhooi »

jpatokal wrote: post #41
fit2rule wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lesson is, people are less prone to want to wear a helmet in Australia because its very hot and you get quite sweaty. Whereas in Amsterdam, people want to leave their heads free because its mostly pretty cold, and you want to wear a proper head covering - like a beany or scarf - and this isn't always compatible with bike helments. However, I've observed many times over people wearing helmets in Amsterdam. Its not…

> Also, the average distances and speeds of the bike riders in Amsterdam are likely to be a lot smaller than those of Australia, where you have all the space in the world. Join me on my bike commute in Sydney sometime. This town of 5 million is crammed into hills and bays, there's a traffic light every 100 meters for most of the way, the roads are jammed during rush hour and there are zero dedicated bike lanes along…

I agree - traffic lights galore.

Thankfully, Clover Moore put in cycleways with kerbs in the CBD - Sydney drivers unfortunately have a somewhat deserved reputation for being notoriously ill-mannered.

And now the State government wants to tear up the cycleways to make room for....more car lanes...sigh...

Sydney taxi drivers are the worst though...

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#68

Post by nols »

victorhooi wrote: post #66
chronolitus wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that he's not arguing against the use of helmets. only on giving people the choice: feel safer with one, wear one, if you don't don't.

It's like seatbelts - I don't know what the legislation is where you are, but over here (Australia), they are very much mandatory. The fine for not wearing your seatbelt is quite hefty. Sure, you can argue that it's a bit nanny-state (and I know in certain countries, that's not a very popular stance), but it's also a bit of public health/safety. Yes, sure, it's not as convenient wearing a seatbelt all the time, or we…

The common argument is that forcing people to wear helmets reduces bicycle use, which contributes to poorer health through reduced activity levels and poorer air quality, which creates an overall higher health cost than the injuries that would be sustained if helmets were not mandatory. This also ignores the impact having more bicyclists on the road have on driver awareness.

I'm all for wearing helmets and encouraging their use, but it's more complicated than "Helmets are safe, they should be mandatory".

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#69

Post by prawn »

dirktheman wrote: post #39

As a dutchman visiting New York City a couple years back, naturally I rented a bike. A couple of random observations: - NYC in theory is ideal for traversing by bicycle. Congested yet flat, much like (old) Amsterdam - It's not so much the lack of bike lanes in the city, it's more the ignorance of drivers that poses a threat. I can't tell you how many times I was cut off, simply because the driver didn't see me or did…

I think that until cycling is perceived as safer in a city, it is mostly the more dedicated, daring and reckless who are out there. When they're the dominant cycling presence, the public (especially drivers) can get a negative impression of cyclists in general.

With better infrastructure comes a greater proportion of everyday types - students riding to university, people slowly riding to work, families, etc.

This change is happening slowly where I live too.

Many cyclists get the jump at red lights to get into a safe, visible position ahead of cars. Many ride outside available (but narrow) bike lanes because they don't want to be within range of a suddenly opening car door.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#70

Post by prawn »

coloroadie wrote: post #49

One more: Most Dutch don't feel the need to dress in bright colored lycra uniforms and ride $6,000 racing bicycles simply to commute to work. I'm American and an amateur racer, but I wear normal clothing when commuting to work. I'm not sure why so many Americans feel the need to "kit up" for the daily commute. I think it actually turns a lot of would-be commuters off.

That's because a greater percentage of the general Dutch population cycle rather than the dedicated subset of Americans.
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