Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam • Hacker News Board

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#21

Post by bsder » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 7:05 AM UTC

nl wrote: post #5

TulliusCicero wrote: post #3

"Only 50% of the cycling routes in the Netherlands are separated from vehicular traffic." Oh, ONLY 50%? Compare that to America, where, including protected bike lanes and bike trails, it's probably what, 5%, tops?

In "bike advocacy" circles it's common to hear people claim that bike lanes have to be separated from vehicular traffic all the time. This is pointing out that view is wrong.

I would argue that this proves exactly the opposite--unless you get a significant chunk of your bicycles isolated from cars it won't work.

And, actually, I agree with this. I really don't think bicycles and cars can share the road. It's simply too easy to do things like "door" a bicycle unintentionally.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#22

Post by Rainymood » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 7:08 AM UTC

Funny to read about as I'm from Holland and have lived a great deal of my life in Amsterdam. A little tip for you people planning/going to Amsterdam in the future: please don't jump off the sidewalk onto the bike lanes without looking around you!

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#23

Post by Derbasti » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 7:36 AM UTC

Often, the problem with US cities is that they use a lot of space for parking lots. In order to be practical for walking and cycling, businesses have to be very densely packed. Having a parking lot in front of every business spaces them too far apart for cycling or walking. Thus, adding parking lots necessitates cars, and cars necessitate parking lots. A vicious cycle.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#24

Post by roel_v » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 7:42 AM UTC

205guy wrote: post #20

I'm glad this article is looking at many factors that are involved in making cities cyclable and walkable. But it seems it is missing one huge factor: the average size of vehicles in the US. It works in Europe because city cars and delivery vans are small (as illustrated in the photos). Of course this is also because of the design and growth of the city predating motor vehicles. In the US, the sunk cost in oversized…

Only partially true. It's true that there aren't that many F150's driving around here (in absolute numbers), then again how many people drive those in American suburbia? Dutch car's aren't, on average, smaller than Camry's or Priuses.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#25

Post by briandear » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 7:52 AM UTC

chema wrote: post #2

These lessons are a constant part of dialogue here in the US, particularly in cities like SF and NY. I would even call them universal. The challenge is convincing folks that they are applicable to their street. Most people here are so attached to the car as the only viable form of transportation that they do not see bikes or transit as complete transportation alternatives, despite the best formed arguments.

Climate has a lot to do with it. Very few people would like to bike to work during a Houston summer. It's like riding through Equatorial Guinea during the rainy season.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#26

Post by D_Alex » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 7:57 AM UTC

I don't know about Vancouver, but here in Australia you must wear a bike helmet when riding a bike. That stops many people riding bikes (please do not argue about this, it has been done to death), and unfortunately has - probably - had the unintended effect of worsening public health.

The pictures from the article show not a single person wearing a helmet... there is a lesson here I'd like the Australian regulaors to learn.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#27

Post by wila » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 8:15 AM UTC

205guy wrote: post #20

I'm glad this article is looking at many factors that are involved in making cities cyclable and walkable. But it seems it is missing one huge factor: the average size of vehicles in the US. It works in Europe because city cars and delivery vans are small (as illustrated in the photos). Of course this is also because of the design and growth of the city predating motor vehicles. In the US, the sunk cost in oversized…

Nah, US sized cars are being driven down here in the Netherlands and it is not a problem at all.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#28

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 8:33 AM UTC

D_Alex wrote: post #26

I don't know about Vancouver, but here in Australia you must wear a bike helmet when riding a bike. That stops many people riding bikes (please do not argue about this, it has been done to death), and unfortunately has - probably - had the unintended effect of worsening public health. The pictures from the article show not a single person wearing a helmet... there is a lesson here I'd like the Australian regulaors to…

[deleted]

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#29

Post by fit2rule » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 9:29 AM UTC

D_Alex wrote: post #26

I don't know about Vancouver, but here in Australia you must wear a bike helmet when riding a bike. That stops many people riding bikes (please do not argue about this, it has been done to death), and unfortunately has - probably - had the unintended effect of worsening public health. The pictures from the article show not a single person wearing a helmet... there is a lesson here I'd like the Australian regulaors to…

The lesson is, people are less prone to want to wear a helmet in Australia because its very hot and you get quite sweaty.

Whereas in Amsterdam, people want to leave their heads free because its mostly pretty cold, and you want to wear a proper head covering - like a beany or scarf - and this isn't always compatible with bike helments.

However, I've observed many times over people wearing helmets in Amsterdam. Its not a generalized circumstance that Amsterdam bike riders don't wear helmets - its just in this selection of pictures. Also, the average distances and speeds of the bike riders in Amsterdam are likely to be a lot smaller than those of Australia, where you have all the space in the world. A lot of people in Amsterdam don't ride much more than a kilometer or so, and at much reduced speeds than you would find on your average Australian road.

Re: Cycling Lessons Learned from Amsterdam

#30

Post by simondelacourt » Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 9:42 AM UTC

nl wrote: post #5

TulliusCicero wrote: post #3

"Only 50% of the cycling routes in the Netherlands are separated from vehicular traffic." Oh, ONLY 50%? Compare that to America, where, including protected bike lanes and bike trails, it's probably what, 5%, tops?

In "bike advocacy" circles it's common to hear people claim that bike lanes have to be separated from vehicular traffic all the time. This is pointing out that view is wrong.

I don't really understand how it proves the point. I find the article not really proving many points.

When bike lanes are not separated they are only not separated because of a cost or space issue in Amsterdam. Not by design. I spend most of my days in Amsterdam, others in The Hague, and when I cycle I prefer to cycle on a bike lane. Drivers still tend to push you aside when there are no specific lanes.

The article, and many foreigners find the dutch system amazingly impressive, but for me, dutch, I still see a lot of room for improvement. Cars inside the city still annoy, cycling lanes are still ignored by parking cars.