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“Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

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Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#161

Post by Retra »

jordigh wrote: post #119
Retra wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think you don't deserve that?

Maybe I do, maybe I don't, but I'm not demanding all of that crap for a job. My demand is more modest: any job I take must not contribute to the proliferation of non-free software and the company I work for must not attempt to control or mistreat its customers. And if I can't find such a job, I'll work as a waiter. Beyond that, having enough of a salary to live on is all a person really needs. Having such an inflexib…

Those who desire the least will tend to get it.

And I don't think "the least" is in any way an accurate description of what you have or want.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#162

Post by thrownaway2424 »

JohnBooty wrote: post #160

I would literally switch jobs (and perhaps careers, if every company was like this) if forced to work in an open office like this. I cannot work that way; I can't focus. I realize that I'm adding nothing constructive to this thread; I don't care. Maybe some manager somewhere will see this and a hundred other anecdotal opinions and think twice about open offices. I am the opposite of a prima donna. I just want to work…

Have heard the exact same sentiment from numerous Bookfaces in the months leading up to this move.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#163

Post by slyall »

moe wrote: post #81

a single room that fits thousands of people. What a nightmare. These "glass palace" offices may work for bankers or marketing teams. For programmers you could just as well plant their desks into the middle of a mall.

This room looks huge but the facebook one must be several times the size..

http://www.radialsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/UBS-tr...

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#164

Post by JohnBooty »

calinet6 wrote: post #140
rifung wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The introverts would prefer a quiet working space (and they're usually the best workers)" Uh what? I'm an extreme introvert but don't see any reason to believe introverts are usually the best workers. I am not even that convinced that introverts would prefer a quiet working space any more than extroverts do. After all, just because someone is extroverted doesn't mean they have an easier time concentrating in a noisy…

Extrovert here, former introvert (yeah, it's not fixed). I appreciate the defense against what is at the very least a statement of extreme arrogance by the GP. I love a quiet workspace, and I also enjoy an open office plan. There's a need for the advantages of both environments—the ease of collaboration and the focused heads-down time—which is why this is such a difficult discussion to have.

Extroverts need distraction-free space too. Conversations surrounding you are perhaps even more distracting when you WANT to join in. :)

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#165

Post by thrownaway2424 »

threeseed wrote: post #44
vonmoltke wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the question is do they miss out on key business knowledge by not being around other people. Considering the amount of money and effort engineers put into blocking distractions in open-plan offices, it is probably about the same.

Again the trend seems to be mixed plan. Open plan offices with private areas. In which case you can not argue that there is significant money/effort involved. It's either the cost of headphones and the effort of walking tens of metres. Developers are going to need better arguments than that to convince HR/Management that this is not a trend worth doing.

If I have to walk tens of meters to meet in a private space with anyone I want to talk to, then 1) the supposed serendipitous transfer of knowledge does not happen, and 2) we could just as easily have had this encounter in my or their private office space.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#166

Post by Retra »

jordigh wrote: post #137
Retra wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I really would not want to work with someone who is looking for so many reasons to be unhappy with a job. So much entitlement... I highly suspect your measurement of "too much entitlement" is a matter of your own jealousy.

Let me rephrase: being around such a person would probably rub me the wrong way, but I wouldn't refuse to work in a company with assholes, because every company has an unpleasant person once in a while. Jealousy? Of what? Of wanting too much?

Jealousy as in "X is 'entitlement' if I want X, but do not anticipate having the ability to get it."

Because if you simply didn't want X, it would just be a matter of taste. So instead, you think it is unreasonable to want X, as you don't think anyone should have it before you unless they are to take some kind of social penalty.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#167

Post by xxpor »

jonknee wrote: post #53
MCRed wrote: post #45

I will never work in an open office plan. It's one of the items on my "prima donna" list. Despite the name I'm pretty serious, and while some of this list represents things that others might not be able to avoid, or even agree with because they are personal preferences, all of the items are the result of bad experiences or missteps I've experienced directly at a job in the past. I know some may object to these. That'…

Small nitpick regarding #2, Jeff Bezos is technically proficient (engineering degree, he was a quant on Wall Street before Amazon).

And Tim Cook has a degree in industrial engineering.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#168

Post by [deleted] »

pbreit wrote: post #141
moe wrote: post #81

a single room that fits thousands of people. What a nightmare. These "glass palace" offices may work for bankers or marketing teams. For programmers you could just as well plant their desks into the middle of a mall.

I dislike open offices but when it's this big it actually can work because all the noise just becomes white. In a small open office, you pretty much have to be silent but in a big one, you can speak freely. We (PayPal) had a big open office like this in Omaha and it actually kind of works better than some might think.

[deleted]

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#169

Post by vonmoltke »

threeseed wrote: post #44
vonmoltke wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the question is do they miss out on key business knowledge by not being around other people. Considering the amount of money and effort engineers put into blocking distractions in open-plan offices, it is probably about the same.

Again the trend seems to be mixed plan. Open plan offices with private areas. In which case you can not argue that there is significant money/effort involved. It's either the cost of headphones and the effort of walking tens of metres. Developers are going to need better arguments than that to convince HR/Management that this is not a trend worth doing.

> Again the trend seems to be mixed plan. Open plan offices with private areas.

What do you mean, "again"? This statement is the first mention of such in this sub-discussion. Also, I'm not going on a tangent about the joke that the "private areas" in such offices turn into or how infeasible this design is for many lines of business.

> In which case you can not argue that there is significant money/effort involved.

"Significant money and effort" as in the sum total devoted to finding solutions to the problem of distracting, sub-optimal environments being foisted upon engineers, not the cost to a single hypothetical engineer.

> It's either the cost of headphones and the effort of walking tens of metres.

That statement presumes: a) headphones are allowed; b) headphones work for everyone; c) people have work they can pick up and move; d) that private areas actually exist in sufficient quantity for those who want them; e) that private areas are not appropriated permanently by people up the political food chain.

> Developers are going to need better arguments than that to convince HR/Management that this is not a trend worth doing.

That statement assumes HR and Management care about any argument besides cost.

Also, you completely ignored the point I was actually making, which is that throwing engineers together into a giant room does not give you the cross-pollination that so many management consultants claim you get.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#170

Post by disbelief »

woah wrote: post #157
moe wrote: post #81

a single room that fits thousands of people. What a nightmare. These "glass palace" offices may work for bankers or marketing teams. For programmers you could just as well plant their desks into the middle of a mall.

I've worked in open plan offices my entire career. I actually don't even like having the same desk every day. If I really want some isolation I work from home. No big deal. I'd rather take the extra money or other office perks over the boring cubicle you all seem to want.

There are more options than just "Entirely Open Concept" or "Individual Cubicles"! There can be a mix of the two, or other things. My ideal scenario would be majority open areas, but with plenty of more secluded rooms/areas where people can work in a quiet, distraction-free atmosphere if they choose. You don't need to have a dedicated desk, and can roam freely between the two.
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