“Today we moved into our new Facebook building” • Hacker News Board

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#71

Post by jmspring » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 11:33 PM UTC

vlunkr wrote: post #30

option wrote: post #7

Having worked as researcher/dev in both private office and open space setup, I am absolutely convinced that private offices are way more productive than open office setup for researchers and developers. Most, if not all, of my colleagues feel the same. In fact, I don't think I will ever accept an offer from a mature company (not startup) which houses its developers in open space.

For me, open office + headphones = private office. At a vastly reduced cost. I know that doesn't work for everyone though.

Open office + headphones negates some of the "pluses" touted by open office advocates. When I worked at Skype, the office in Palo Alto got some kudos for the "design" -- http://www.designblitzsf.com/projects/skype-hq/ being one such URL.

As far as noise goes, even with audio engineers on staff, the level of disruptive noise was horrible. People having calls at their desks, testing mobile notifications, etc. Thankfully, I worked at home 50+% of the time as getting productive work done in the office was incredibly difficult. Large open space + open office = bad idea.

Our office in Stockholm, while an open office, had many smaller sections offset by walls, break rooms, etc. It was a much better experience overall, but still not optimal.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#72

Post by wishinghand » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 11:37 PM UTC

praneshp wrote: post #62

tedunangst wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How loud is your open office?

It's as a result of prolonged headphone use, not loudness.

I don't see how that's true, but I'm open to having my mind changed. But a comfortable listening level with well-insulated headphones/IEMs for prolonged hours shouldn't be damaging. It can be tiring but having periods of quiet (home life, sleep) re-invigorates them.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#73

Post by conitpicker » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 11:38 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #10

option wrote: post #7

Having worked as researcher/dev in both private office and open space setup, I am absolutely convinced that private offices are way more productive than open office setup for researchers and developers. Most, if not all, of my colleagues feel the same. In fact, I don't think I will ever accept an offer from a mature company (not startup) which houses its developers in open space.

The only redeeming feature of open plan comes from Hamming's essay, you and your research: Another trait, it took me a while to notice. I noticed the following facts about people who work with the door open or the door closed. I notice that if you have the door to your office closed, you get more work ✥ done today and tomorrow, and you are more productive than most. But 10 years later somehow you don't ✥ know quite k…

I had a single office at my last job. I'm in a shared office today. At my current job I feel much less aware of what's going on around me because I spend all my time with headphones on.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#74

Post by ctvo » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 11:39 PM UTC

MCRed wrote: post #45

I will never work in an open office plan. It's one of the items on my "prima donna" list. Despite the name I'm pretty serious, and while some of this list represents things that others might not be able to avoid, or even agree with because they are personal preferences, all of the items are the result of bad experiences or missteps I've experienced directly at a job in the past. I know some may object to these. That'…

Really? All of this is on your list? If I asked for 3 mandatory meetings a year you're NEVER going to work at my company?

How do you go through life being so rigid on such relatively trivial issues?

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#75

Post by tedunangst » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

MCRed wrote: post #65

tedunangst wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Windows and Mac rules are much more personal opinions than the rest. There's no great insight there, especially for someone who prefers Windows, but it adds a dimension of partisanship.

Feel free to swap out Windows/Mac/Linux for your preferred OS configurations and make your own rules. I'm not trying to start a debate on what is best-- except maybe to say to give your employees the option. Of course if you're building windows software you're going to be working on a windows machine, same thing with iOS. But if you're building stuff to run on linux servers, seems wrong to make your employees do it o…

Perhaps: Freedom to choose preferred development platform/tools/etc.

You asked why people were downvoting. I suspect 19/20 have a lot to do with it.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#76

Post by jordigh » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

But will it still have the iconic

    H|A
    -+-
    C|K

entrance that the old building had?

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#77

Post by moe » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

therealdrag0 wrote: post #60

jquery wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also equals hearing loss, but that doesn't show up on the company balance sheets.

Closed cans or IEMs allow you to have very little (or no) audio volume while still blocking outside noise.

And both tend to get very uncomfortable when worn for extended periods of time.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#78

Post by InclinedPlane » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 11:41 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #29

noddingham wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and all the research seems to agree. Of course, the anecdotal evidence outliers will disagree, but I don't see how there's a debate anymore when you look at productivity.

I don't know if the research is that crystal clear right now. I have no doubt that developers will write more code whilst in offices free of distraction. But the question is do they miss out on key business knowledge by not being around other people. Especially if they are in Agile feature teams.

When I was working in offices I felt the cross pollination was actually superior in that environment. I could have a long (hours long) talk with a co-worker in their office or mine and really dig down into something and share a lot of knowledge (either general or tribal). Whereas with an open office you tend to try to keep things short because you tend to be interrupting many people instead of just one, and because you lack the almost conspiratorial intimacy that you can have with an office the sorts of discussions you have are comparatively constrained.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#79

Post by legohead » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 11:42 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #10

option wrote: post #7

Having worked as researcher/dev in both private office and open space setup, I am absolutely convinced that private offices are way more productive than open office setup for researchers and developers. Most, if not all, of my colleagues feel the same. In fact, I don't think I will ever accept an offer from a mature company (not startup) which houses its developers in open space.

The only redeeming feature of open plan comes from Hamming's essay, you and your research: Another trait, it took me a while to notice. I noticed the following facts about people who work with the door open or the door closed. I notice that if you have the door to your office closed, you get more work ✥ done today and tomorrow, and you are more productive than most. But 10 years later somehow you don't ✥ know quite k…

The key takeaway from that to me is to at least have an office. Keep it open most of the time for communication, close it when you need privacy.

The whole "easier to collaborate with others" with an open floor plan is just excuse. I communicate better over text chat anyway.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#80

Post by nilkn » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 11:47 PM UTC

MCRed wrote: post #45

I will never work in an open office plan. It's one of the items on my "prima donna" list. Despite the name I'm pretty serious, and while some of this list represents things that others might not be able to avoid, or even agree with because they are personal preferences, all of the items are the result of bad experiences or missteps I've experienced directly at a job in the past. I know some may object to these. That'…

My list is nearly the same as yours, except I don't hate meetings and Windows as much as you do and I'm also willing to work for salary alone and no equity, as long as the salary is market level. I definitely don't want daily scrum meetings, but I don't mind monthly meetings, etc., as long as they're well-designed and purposeful.

Re: office plans, I'm fine with a cubicle as long as it's tastefully done, developers are segregated from sales people, etc. I want to see that thought has went into it. I understand that sometimes a company truly can't afford private offices for somebody, so what it really comes down to, for me, is whether they care about their working environment in a legitimate, thoughtful way (as opposed to a bandwagony way).