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Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

nytimes.com

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Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#51

Post by fiatmoney »

tptacek wrote: post #35
fiatmoney wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's unheard of for agents in a "different investigative team" (that, BTW, happens to be involved in shaking down suspects) to, say, provide illegally obtained evidence to their coworkers. The government is very strict about tracking the source of evidence so it can be turned over to the defense; otherwise it'd be a clear Brady violation. They could face as much as a light chastizement from a federal judge! http…

Is there some link you can point us to suggesting that that's happened in this case? There are 113,000 employees at DOJ, so, statistically, every case is always going to be one or two hops away from some kind of malfeasance somewhere, right?

If the complaint is "the DOJ routinely hides evidence and engages in corrupt behavior", it isn't exactly a counterargument to say "but you're always near some corruption at the DOJ, and besides, the DOJ hasn't released any evidence that they're not to be trusted".

It is entirely likely, a priori, that there will be abuses in a system where violations of the law are, to a close approximation, unpunished, it is to their great professional benefit to violate the law, and it is to their great professional benefit to ignore violations of the law by their coworkers. Nothing in this indictment makes me revise that opinion downwards.

Besides which, these agents in particular have a pattern (according to the indictment) of initiating investigations against targets who had become obstacles to their corruption.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#52

Post by modeless »

CPLX wrote: post #44

I encourage everyone with interest in the overall story to actually read the complaint. It's astonishing. It appears that these two Federal agents were doing far, far more than just grabbing some excess bitcoins that were lying around and they figured nobody would miss. It reads more like a purposeful organized crime effort, involving setting up dummy shell companies, forging letters from the government, being involv…

> there is some implication that these agents may have been responsible for theft of bitcoin not only from Silk Road, but from Mt Gox as well

I don't think this is true. Unless I'm missing something the allegation here is not that they stole from Mt. Gox but that they used Mt. Gox to cash out bitcoins stolen from Silk Road.

They did actually then steal from Mt. Gox, but it was "legal". They accused Mt. Gox of operating illegally and seized their US bank accounts. That happened a long time before Mt. Gox actually collapsed and is separate from the bitcoin theft that brought them down.

This whole thing reads like a conspiracy theory dreamed up by radical libertarians. If they really are out to get you, does that mean you're not paranoid?

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#53

Post by cubano »

nateabele wrote: post #17
ipsin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That hadn't even occurred to me. Is that something that prosecutors can even do? It seems legally and ethically suspect, but prosecutors seem to be unaccountable when it comes to that sort of tactic. I can imagine the prosecutors pretending it's not material because it's an "ongoing investigation" (that's purposely paused until the trial finishes), but it would be very interesting to know the complete timeline and se…

If the agents are convicted, you'd think Ulbricht's lawyer could appeal to have his conviction overturned...

Even if they are not convicted, these charges are more than enough to appeal the entirety of the case against Ulbricht.

As someone with direct experience with police corruption (I will save the story for some other time), I hope like heck he gets relief from his conviction due to these stunning revelations.

I don't claim to know all the details or connections between these rotten agents and the non-rotten ones, but to be honest, I don't think it matters much.

The actors in power have to be held to a much higher standard of conduct than the criminals do, and just the appearances of these perhaps illegal behaviors should cast grave doubt over the entire case.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#54

Post by jessaustin »

rayiner wrote: post #6
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #4

Bitcoin seems to make everyone crazy. I guess if you're prone to theft and dishonesty, it must be tough to look at a folder on some confiscated PC with files worth tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars and not take them. Seems like everyday police corruption, like how drug dealers busted with thousands of dollars suddenly have a evidence locker inventory with zero cash. I'm glad the system is working, at least to…

I think it's a look into what he world looks like without social norms. The folks stealing bitcoins probably would never take $200 out of grandma's purse when she wasn't looking. Society has acculturated people to understand that's bad. But butcoin is novel, and doesn't have social norms surrounding it. It doesn't feel the same as taking money out of a purse.

The folks stealing bitcoins probably would never take $200 out of grandma's purse...

You're probably right, and that would be great if agents primarily came into contact with grandmas and their purses. However, these individuals were employed to investigate successful criminal enterprises. It is very doubtful that this is the first time they've had an opportunity to steal from the wealthy target of a criminal investigation.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#55

Post by rosser »

ianstallings wrote: post #46
fweespeech wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except these agents were a separate investigation and their evidence wasn't included in the trial.

It's relevant though. Missing information is just as important as provided information when it comes to the law. That's what they mean when they say the whole truth .

Only if the missing evidence is exculpatory.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#56

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #6
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #4

Bitcoin seems to make everyone crazy. I guess if you're prone to theft and dishonesty, it must be tough to look at a folder on some confiscated PC with files worth tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars and not take them. Seems like everyday police corruption, like how drug dealers busted with thousands of dollars suddenly have a evidence locker inventory with zero cash. I'm glad the system is working, at least to…

I think it's a look into what he world looks like without social norms. The folks stealing bitcoins probably would never take $200 out of grandma's purse when she wasn't looking. Society has acculturated people to understand that's bad. But butcoin is novel, and doesn't have social norms surrounding it. It doesn't feel the same as taking money out of a purse.

[deleted]

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#57

Post by [deleted] »

jessaustin wrote: post #54
rayiner wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a look into what he world looks like without social norms. The folks stealing bitcoins probably would never take $200 out of grandma's purse when she wasn't looking. Society has acculturated people to understand that's bad. But butcoin is novel, and doesn't have social norms surrounding it. It doesn't feel the same as taking money out of a purse.

The folks stealing bitcoins probably would never take $200 out of grandma's purse... You're probably right, and that would be great if agents primarily came into contact with grandmas and their purses. However, these individuals were employed to investigate successful criminal enterprises. It is very doubtful that this is the first time they've had an opportunity to steal from the wealthy target of a criminal investi…

[deleted]

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#58

Post by toomuchtodo »

tptacek wrote: post #43
deftnerd wrote: post #3

I wonder if the government buried this until after the Ulbricht trial was over. The fact that two of the investigators were corrupt and stealing funds could have derailed the case.

It turns out one of them was probably on Ulbricht's payroll: http://www.wired.com/2015/03/dea-agent-charged-acting-paid-m...

Wow. How could Ulbricht's attorney not appeal after this is made public?

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#60

Post by tptacek »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #58
tptacek wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out one of them was probably on Ulbricht's payroll: http://www.wired.com/2015/03/dea-agent-charged-acting-paid-m...

Wow. How could Ulbricht's attorney not appeal after this is made public?

You think evidence that Ulbricht bribed someone to get intelligence on another DEA investigation is going to help him?

I mean: they'll probably appeal no matter what, because what do they have to lose at this point.

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