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Racing goes electric: At the track with Formula E, the first e-racing series

arstechnica.com

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Re: Racing goes electric: At the track with Formula E, the first e-racing series

#71

Post by semerda »

dmaz wrote: post #51
semerda wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all relative. 80 decibels in the day isn't that loud. It's the sound of a vacuum cleaner. At night on the other hand 80db is loud. Considering that the F1 are 140DB the sound differences are massive.

To update that number, the new turbocharged engines required in Formula 1 since 2014 are much quieter (to some fans' dismay), maxing out around 100 dB. http://www.marca.com/2014/01/30/motor/formula1/1391085772.ht... (Spanish)

Still I'd rather be listening to a 80db combustion motor spinning up and turbo whining, occasional back fires, flames from exhaust etc.. than a 80db electric buzz box ;-) I'm sure most race-car fans would agree.

Re: Racing goes electric: At the track with Formula E, the first e-racing series

#72

Post by pauldino »

discardorama wrote: post #64
ourmandave wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like NASCAR, not about the car but the skill of the driver. Otherwise it becomes who has the better funding to afford the best engineering team and money for the lightest and strongest parts.

But even NASCAR has teams of engineers trying to find legal (or questionable) tweaks. At this stage, when technical advances are needed, having a more open model might be better.

If I understand it right that'll get going from the second season on.

"From season two, Formula E will operate as an 'open championship', allowing teams and manufacturers the opportunity to showcase their own electrical energy innovations. Working to the technical specifications set out by the FIA, teams will focus their efforts on improving and developing powertrains and battery technology, with the aim of this filtering into the everyday electric vehicle market."

http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/guide/overview.aspx

Re: Racing goes electric: At the track with Formula E, the first e-racing series

#73

Post by zik »

rcxdude wrote: post #56
MarkyC4 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add to this, 140dB isn't about twice as loud as 80dB as the units might lead you to believe, since the scale is logarithmic: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel These FE cars are MUCH quieter than their F1 cousins.

Well, in terms of sound energy, but our hearing is also logarithmic, so 140dB will sound about twice as loud.

> an increase of 10db SPL is perceived to be approximately twice as loud

From http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/

So it's really 2^6 = 64x as loud, perceptually.

Re: Racing goes electric: At the track with Formula E, the first e-racing series

#74

Post by nl »

semerda wrote: post #71
dmaz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To update that number, the new turbocharged engines required in Formula 1 since 2014 are much quieter (to some fans' dismay), maxing out around 100 dB. http://www.marca.com/2014/01/30/motor/formula1/1391085772.ht... (Spanish)

Still I'd rather be listening to a 80db combustion motor spinning up and turbo whining, occasional back fires, flames from exhaust etc.. than a 80db electric buzz box ;-) I'm sure most race-car fans would agree.

Have you heard one? They sound pretty good - more like the scream of a gas turbine than a "buzz box".

I grew up near a F1 track during the "big bang" turbo era (1,350+HP from a 1.5 litre engine that would only last 3 alps in qualifying trim)[1]. I'm pretty sure we'll never hear engines like those in circuit races again, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines#1966.E2.80....

Re: Racing goes electric: At the track with Formula E, the first e-racing series

#75

Post by jeremyrwelch »

driverdan wrote: post #66
jeremyrwelch wrote: post #27

Excellent interview with Formula E founder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrTbdKe0XTo Best quote, when asked if he thought we could end our dependence on oil: "The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones." Really important to understand that this is just the first iteration of their plan. Goal is to get to single car for a full hour race within a few years. Agag says they now have many major cities approa…

80dB is below the legal limit for street vehicles in many states. That's pretty quiet. I've owned a few cars with exhaust louder than that.

Fair point, the sound levels are similar to a street legal car.

But the important point is they are NOT silent. There's still a rush to hearing them zip by while in the stands.

Re: Racing goes electric: At the track with Formula E, the first e-racing series

#76

Post by andrewchambers »

TheLoneWolfling wrote: post #49
jkot wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> engines can't be pushed to higher hp unless we want to allow multiple casualties per race, We need robots than.

It would be interesting to do remote control. I.e. nobody in the car. Two classes: one with restrictions (i.e. driver must be in control - no assists / etc. May be tricky to define.), one without (want to go fully computer-controlled? Sure!).

Remote control means you can tweak the scale of the cars/races.

Re: Racing goes electric: At the track with Formula E, the first e-racing series

#77

Post by alkimie2 »

semerda wrote: post #71
dmaz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To update that number, the new turbocharged engines required in Formula 1 since 2014 are much quieter (to some fans' dismay), maxing out around 100 dB. http://www.marca.com/2014/01/30/motor/formula1/1391085772.ht... (Spanish)

Still I'd rather be listening to a 80db combustion motor spinning up and turbo whining, occasional back fires, flames from exhaust etc.. than a 80db electric buzz box ;-) I'm sure most race-car fans would agree.

Not me. I used to go to the Sinapore F1. Even with ear plugs it was painful next to the track. It wore me out and really reduced my enjoyment. I for one welcome our new electric masters. I hope Singapore is one of the first to host. I'd definitely attend.

Re: Racing goes electric: At the track with Formula E, the first e-racing series

#78

Post by moe »

TheLoneWolfling wrote: post #65
moe wrote: post #45

I think they should just remove the drivers and let the engineers compete freely. That would be much more interesting to watch than the current yawn-fest of "which human will make the least mistakes on mostly identical cars"...

It's rather difficult to do that and keep some semblance of safety. Ultimately I think the simplest way to keep things sane would be to do something along the lines of "you have amount of MJ worth of for the race" (which would then spawn all sorts of related rules about what exactly counts as fuel, but meh. Such is life.).

It's rather difficult to do that and keep some semblance of safety.

Huh? But that's partly the point, what do you need safety for when there's no drivers?

Build a strong cage around the track so the spectators don't get hurt when a car lifts off at 400mph. And set hefty fines for when a robocar damages another robocar, so the participants are incentivized to win by racing rather than by elimination (which might actually be an interesting sub-genre of its own, though).

And then let's just see how far the engineers can bend physics when they don't have to throttle everything down to accommodate for human safety and reflexes...

Re: Racing goes electric: At the track with Formula E, the first e-racing series

#79

Post by TheLoneWolfling »

moe wrote: post #78
TheLoneWolfling wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rather difficult to do that and keep some semblance of safety. Ultimately I think the simplest way to keep things sane would be to do something along the lines of "you have amount of MJ worth of for the race" (which would then spawn all sorts of related rules about what exactly counts as fuel, but meh. Such is life.).

It's rather difficult to do that and keep some semblance of safety. Huh? But that's partly the point, what do you need safety for when there's no drivers? Build a strong cage around the track so the spectators don't get hurt when a car lifts off at 400mph. And set hefty fines for when a robocar damages another robocar, so the participants are incentivized to win by racing rather than by elimination (which might actua…

Oh, thought you were talking about driver-d cars.

With driverless cars, I agree.

Re: Racing goes electric: At the track with Formula E, the first e-racing series

#80

Post by Already__Taken »

TheLoneWolfling wrote: post #65
moe wrote: post #45

I think they should just remove the drivers and let the engineers compete freely. That would be much more interesting to watch than the current yawn-fest of "which human will make the least mistakes on mostly identical cars"...

It's rather difficult to do that and keep some semblance of safety. Ultimately I think the simplest way to keep things sane would be to do something along the lines of "you have amount of MJ worth of for the race" (which would then spawn all sorts of related rules about what exactly counts as fuel, but meh. Such is life.).

Those are basically WEC rules then.
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