Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure why were downvoted here. It does seem that there is some plausible deniability about having a picture on your website that may or may not have anything to do with warrants that could still convey information to those looking for it.
Lawyers aren't idiots. Judges aren't idiots. Lawmakers aren't idiots. If a law says you cannot disclose a government request, then trying to get around the injunction by playing games isn't going to do anything for you.
Australia outlaws warrant canaries
81–90 of 116 posts
Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure why were downvoted here. It does seem that there is some plausible deniability about having a picture on your website that may or may not have anything to do with warrants that could still convey information to those looking for it.
Lawyers aren't idiots. Judges aren't idiots. Lawmakers aren't idiots. If a law says you cannot disclose a government request, then trying to get around the injunction by playing games isn't going to do anything for you.
I could for example argue that you, by changing the profile picture on your blog, have used a warrant canary too. Do you have any way of proving that you didn't? You certainly can't argue that you don't need one (this would imply you haven't receive a NSL which would be a warrant canary statement in itself), you can still argue that you haven't used your profile picture as one, but then we're back to square one, with them saying "You have!"
If the government wants you in prison, they'll find a way.
Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is happening at a pace that doesn't force people to think about it. If something big and bad happens suddenly, then people are forced to notice. But if the same big and bad thing happens slowly, one step at a time, most people don't notice. And those who notice are aren't able to do much as they are in a minority. Also, many people are more idealistic in their youth - before they have families, careers etc and bef…
I think you're correct in everything you've written, but I guess I go back to OP's question "why is this happening" and focus on who is driving this and why? Sure, we understand why people are going along with it quite well at this point, but who and what are behind the push to remove civil liberties is the more interesting component to this issue in my mind.
There's no master plan, if that's what you're getting at. I think this general drift is the result of a few different things, most of which are older than we'd like to admit:
• A lot of people like authoritarianism • People blame government by default for any problem that doesn't have any more obvious perpetrator (see point 1) • The massive mismatch in military strength between western powers and elsewhere that results in oppression of weaker nations and resultant terrorism
In case you doubt the appeal of authoritarianism just go look at the popularity of Stalin in Russia, or the readership of the Daily Mail in the UK, or the overwhelming political support for the NSA / the PATRIOT Act. Lots and lots of people want to live in a highly authoritarian society and it's worth reflecting on why that is, and whether those people have valid reasons.
I was recently in a former communist country, and took a tour of one of the cities. The tour guide mentioned that a lot of older people weren't so sure that democracy/capitalism is better than communism. Sure, in the communist era people got executed for merely making rude comments or jokes about political leaders, but at least there was working social security, pensions, everyone had a job etc. Whereas post-USSR, often life got harder and the old certainties dissolved.
Authoritarianism is popular because it presents people with a simple deal: support the regime no matter how shitty it gets and in return the government will take care of you - and as long as they have absolute power, if something bad happens to you then it's the government's fault. That government tends to have simple, easily understood solutions for things that appeal to people's animal instincts, like picking someone to blame for something and then executing them. Additionally you will get a comforting story about how by simply being born in this society you are one of the good guys, as opposed to "them" who are the bad guys. All you have to do is not have strong opinions, not be weird, or gay, or a Jew, and fit in with whatever other random biases the leaders have and life will be, if not good, then at least straightforward. And how hard is that, really? Almost by definition most people find it easy to meet that criteria, because they're in the majority.
Contrast with the civil libertarian utopia: if something bad happens to you, it's probably your own fault. You have nobody to blame but yourself. It's not clear what you're supposed to do or how to be a success in life. The government is small and generally refuses blame for things, even if the population is under attack. There is no black/white good vs evil story to hold on to. All around you are people who aren't like you, who don't think like you.
That's just my guess. I would really like to read a well thought out book on the appeal of authoritarianism. I feel like it's an underexplored topic (at least in the modern era).
Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
It looks to me like a transition to 'inverted totalitarianism'/'managed democracy': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism The state is increasingly controlled by the hyper-wealthy individuals and corporations that fund politics, and its policies and propaganda increasingly reflect their interests. Standard totalitarianism, by contrast, is where the corporations are controlled by the state. As to whet…
>However, it's only recently that we have developed tools that make it possible for one person (e.g. Snowden) to undo billions of dollars of secrecy by leaking more documents that one could physically carry if they had been printed on paper, then distributing them to millions at zero cost. I've often wondered what has been said, or what kind of policies have been changed, or implemented, etc. in the NSA since Snowden…
Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're correct in everything you've written, but I guess I go back to OP's question "why is this happening" and focus on who is driving this and why? Sure, we understand why people are going along with it quite well at this point, but who and what are behind the push to remove civil liberties is the more interesting component to this issue in my mind.
> who and what are behind the push to remove civil liberties There's no master plan, if that's what you're getting at. I think this general drift is the result of a few different things, most of which are older than we'd like to admit: • A lot of people like authoritarianism • People blame government by default for any problem that doesn't have any more obvious perpetrator (see point 1) • The massive mismatch in mili…
This is a really salient point and one that comes off as heresy to the standard conspiracy-esque narrative. The reality is that to some extent our slide into authoritarianism is democratic.
Look at the "Arab Spring" -- they got a little democracy and mostly elected totalitarian theocrats. In that case many people want totalitarian enforcement of social norms.
Another place you can see a strong preference for authoritarianism is at a local community level. Many people prefer communities with strong zoning regulations, regulations on the appearance of buildings, and (often indirect) mechanisms for excluding 'undesirable' residents. Without those things you get sprawling, ugly, and sometimes crime-ridden places that just don't feel safe and are not aesthetically appealing.
Yet another is the clear preference many people have for authoritarian computing platforms like iOS. It's the most restricted platform in the history of computing, yet it offers superior user experience and a lack of malware precisely for that reason. The fact is that there's classes of problems that can be easily and simply solved by authoritarianism that are not easily addressed in a freer society.
Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We've had bombs in London Did they react this way during the Troubles? I don't think they did. I was in London in '92 and there was a bomb threat called in at the tube station one stop over. It delayed the train for a bit, but that was it and everyone continued on like normal. This time the US freaks out because the world came to their doorstep and they flip out because they have no idea how to handle it. The leade…
This technique was first theorized and practiced by CIA in Europe (and likely KGB elsewhere) during the Cold War. In Italy they called it "Tension Strategy", as in "keeping people tense" with fear of attacks and bombs so they will allow the government to get and maintain illiberal powers or even allow a Chilean-style coup d'état. During the Troubles, the UK had its fair share of "freaking out", banning public bins (o…
Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lawyers aren't idiots. Judges aren't idiots. Lawmakers aren't idiots. If a law says you cannot disclose a government request, then trying to get around the injunction by playing games isn't going to do anything for you.
Thing is though, this and stuff like "hand over the keys to that encrypted data" are really easy ways of getting just about everyone into prison. I could for example argue that you, by changing the profile picture on your blog, have used a warrant canary too. Do you have any way of proving that you didn't? You certainly can't argue that you don't need one (this would imply you haven't receive a NSL which would be a w…
The issue isn't that they want people in prison. The issue is that they don't want people to know what they're doing, and they're resorting to the threat of prison to keep people quiet. It's actually perfectly reasonable to try to prevent the "bad guys" from knowing what they're up to or what their methods are, but that is getting to be more and more in conflict with peoples desire for transparency and in some cases peoples explicit rights - to free speech and privacy in US for example.
This raises an interesting question to me, as I see similarities in many other places where conflicts of different types tend to escalate to absurd levels. Do people just default to yelling louder, pushing harder, more of whatever? Why does this keep happening?
Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries
#88What happened in the last few years to allow our civil rights in the most forward thinking countries to unravel so easily? And why do citizens not care? How is it possible that all countries have elected such a group of corrupt, nearsighted politicians to the point where freedom is an inconvenience over them consolidating practically dictatorial power? And again, why does no one care?
Unravel relative to what? The 1990s representated the tail of an unprecedented 30-year expansion in civil rights. We're in the middle of a conservative retrenching as of late, but the Overton window has shifted and it's not in the direction people on HN assume. The kind of abuse that routinely happened in the legal system in the 60's and 70's would be unthinkable today.
Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're correct in everything you've written, but I guess I go back to OP's question "why is this happening" and focus on who is driving this and why? Sure, we understand why people are going along with it quite well at this point, but who and what are behind the push to remove civil liberties is the more interesting component to this issue in my mind.
> who and what are behind the push to remove civil liberties There's no master plan, if that's what you're getting at. I think this general drift is the result of a few different things, most of which are older than we'd like to admit: • A lot of people like authoritarianism • People blame government by default for any problem that doesn't have any more obvious perpetrator (see point 1) • The massive mismatch in mili…
I have a hard time wrapping my head around this as pro-authoritarian thinking is so foreign to me.
Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're correct in everything you've written, but I guess I go back to OP's question "why is this happening" and focus on who is driving this and why? Sure, we understand why people are going along with it quite well at this point, but who and what are behind the push to remove civil liberties is the more interesting component to this issue in my mind.
Agreed, that is a very important question. But, it has always been like this, no? Except may be for brief periods in history. A small group of people have always tried to control the majority - kings, clergymen, military, businessmen etc. We are just more aware of it these days than a few hundred years ago, but other than that what has changed? If anyone has any resource on this topic, please post - this (and environ…