Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Australia outlaws warrant canaries

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 116 posts

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#51

Post by pjc50 »

mhurron wrote: post #15
toyg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a combination of unprecedented wealth (let's be honest, modern poverty in industrialized countries is nothing like it was back in the '50s) and the continuous rise of asymmetric warfare randomly deployed by psychopaths. In Sydney, the "cafe kidnap" attack is still fresh in everyone's mind. We've had bombs in London and Madrid, plus a number of other scares, and when a population feels threatened, they'll typical…

> We've had bombs in London Did they react this way during the Troubles? I don't think they did. I was in London in '92 and there was a bomb threat called in at the tube station one stop over. It delayed the train for a bit, but that was it and everyone continued on like normal. This time the US freaks out because the world came to their doorstep and they flip out because they have no idea how to handle it. The leade…

Did they react this way during the Troubles? I don't think they did

Mainland UK was left largely alone, although the news was subject to bizarre censorship (Gerry Adams having to speak through a proxy, for example) and they took all the bins out of railway stations.

Northern Ireland was subject to military occupation, with overt armed checkpoints, occasionally military firing on civilians (although not with the same level of impunity as US police), secret police and informants running around, and widespread street violence.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#52

Post by ksherlock »

steven2012 wrote: post #9

What happened in the last few years to allow our civil rights in the most forward thinking countries to unravel so easily? And why do citizens not care? How is it possible that all countries have elected such a group of corrupt, nearsighted politicians to the point where freedom is an inconvenience over them consolidating practically dictatorial power? And again, why does no one care?

Last few yeas? This has been a problem since the 1798 Sedition Act.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#53

Post by cpt1138 »

e40 wrote: post #39
steven2012 wrote: post #9

What happened in the last few years to allow our civil rights in the most forward thinking countries to unravel so easily? And why do citizens not care? How is it possible that all countries have elected such a group of corrupt, nearsighted politicians to the point where freedom is an inconvenience over them consolidating practically dictatorial power? And again, why does no one care?

And why do citizens not care? This is the real mystery. I can't count the number of times I've had conversations with smart people that just don't seem to care. After the PATRIOT ACT was passed I was livid and knew it would be used for non-terrorism things. As we know now, it's mostly used for non-terrorism. People would look at me like I had some tin foil on my head. It couldn't even get people to talk about it. (Le…

What does "care" mean in your mind? You say were you livid and you expressed your lividity by talking to people? I think a lot of people "care" they are just not given anything actionable to do. Expressing impotent rage on FB is not really helping AFAICT.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#55

Post by abandonliberty »

hahainternet wrote: post #34
tempodox wrote: post #2

the Australian government made the usual argument that metadata needs to be retained for long periods in order to fight terrorism and serious crime—even though the German experience is that, in practice, data retention does not help Which only goes to show that it's not about fighting crime, but supporting it on the highest levels. Civil rights and the rule of law are obstacles to the coming rule of institutionalised…

I'm embarrassed to be on the same site as nonsense like this getting posted honestly.

That's rather closed minded of you. If you don't want to be bothered by differing perspectives, there are plenty of echo chamber outlets for you to choose from so we can further distance and alienate ourselves from each other.

Homophobia, racism, politics - everything gets better when we share openly.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#56

Post by pc2g4d »

nmc wrote: post #35
mnw21cam wrote: post #13

Cool. So, if I was to publicly announce "I have never been given a warrant demanding I hand over data by the Australian government", then I will have committed a crime attracting a two year prison sentence, and I should never visit the country?

Yes. At least, that is how it reads. We will have to see how it gets enforced.

How strong is Australia's right to free speech?

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#58

Post by a_bonobo »

pc2g4d wrote: post #56
nmc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. At least, that is how it reads. We will have to see how it gets enforced.

How strong is Australia's right to free speech?

Australia has interesting laws in that case, and they're not very good:

>Australia does not have explicit freedom of speech in any constitutional or statutory declaration of rights, with the exception of political speech which is protected from criminal prosecution at common law per Australian Capital Television Pty Ltd v Commonwealth. There is however an implied freedom of speech that was recognised in Lange v Australian Broadcasting Corporation[48]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#A...

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#59

Post by angersock »

toyg wrote: post #27
mhurron wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've had bombs in London Did they react this way during the Troubles? I don't think they did. I was in London in '92 and there was a bomb threat called in at the tube station one stop over. It delayed the train for a bit, but that was it and everyone continued on like normal. This time the US freaks out because the world came to their doorstep and they flip out because they have no idea how to handle it. The leade…

This technique was first theorized and practiced by CIA in Europe (and likely KGB elsewhere) during the Cold War. In Italy they called it "Tension Strategy", as in "keeping people tense" with fear of attacks and bombs so they will allow the government to get and maintain illiberal powers or even allow a Chilean-style coup d'état. During the Troubles, the UK had its fair share of "freaking out", banning public bins (o…

The Irish terrorism was pretty impressive, in both tactics and staying power.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#60

Post by vijayr »

steven2012 wrote: post #9

What happened in the last few years to allow our civil rights in the most forward thinking countries to unravel so easily? And why do citizens not care? How is it possible that all countries have elected such a group of corrupt, nearsighted politicians to the point where freedom is an inconvenience over them consolidating practically dictatorial power? And again, why does no one care?

It is happening at a pace that doesn't force people to think about it. If something big and bad happens suddenly, then people are forced to notice. But if the same big and bad thing happens slowly, one step at a time, most people don't notice. And those who notice are aren't able to do much as they are in a minority.

Also, many people are more idealistic in their youth - before they have families, careers etc and before putting food on the table becomes a bigger priority. That is why it is easier to protest as a college student, than as a 40 year old with a mortgage and two kids. But that is also getting harder these days - student loans, getting a record etc

And above all else, it is easier to numb ourselves these days than ever before with internet, video games, porn, TV, ebooks ("mental porn") etc. Why go out and do something (like protest) and put ourselves at risk, when we can watch Netflix comfortably at home? We are quickly becoming a species that values convenience over everything else, including privacy and civil rights :(

Edit: There is another thing - most people genuinely believe that bad things won't happen to them, as they haven't done anything wrong. While that is cute, we know it is not true but most of us have trouble accepting it

Post reply on HN