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Passphrases You Can Memorize That Even the NSA Can’t Guess

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Re: Passphrases You Can Memorize That Even the NSA Can’t Guess

#13
post #9
post #2

Interesting rewrite of the actual title :P

We're at the point where we're more worried about NSA then a random attacker, as we should be.

hmm I guess we are worried about a smart attacker, and we know those guys are really smart

Re: Passphrases You Can Memorize That Even the NSA Can’t Guess

#14
post #4

I can't imagine doing this for the hundreds of passwords in my list, especially when I change some of them regularly. It could be useful for a master password, though - such as the one that secures my password list. Isn't just remembering a line from a song a little easier? Then you get a password recovery mechanism too, as long as you remember the song, or at least the artist!

Some guy lost 4 Bitcoins that were encrypted with a line from some obscure afrikaans poem, because someone was crazy enough to brute-force all possible private keys that you can come up with using basically any phrase you can find on the internet [0]. So as someone else already said - if it's online, it's not safe.

[0] http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ptuf3/brain_wallet...

Re: Passphrases You Can Memorize That Even the NSA Can’t Guess

#15
post #9
post #2

Interesting rewrite of the actual title :P

We're at the point where we're more worried about NSA then a random attacker, as we should be.

You can't imply that these organizations would need to try and guess your passwords though. They have extensive profiles on everyone, "see" the entire internet traffic and can take the data from that password protected website at will.

Re: Passphrases You Can Memorize That Even the NSA Can’t Guess

#16
post #11

I've tested the passphrase: password password password password and most of the online entropy checkers[1] says it's really safe to use such .. is this true? 1. http://rumkin.com/tools/password/passchk.php

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/words/the-oec-facts-abo...

Well assuming random guessing with 95% vocabulary coverage its about 50,000 words. A passphrase checker that doesn't start from there but rather works from the ascii tokens is likely not very helpful for checking the strength of a passphrase.

> ... should be 8 characters or longer, which forces you to use multiple words or extra symbols. > ... should have upper case, lower case, symbols, and numbers; or at least three of those four groups. > ... should not be a common word and should not be a common phrase. > ... should not contain a date, a name, or other things that can be associated with you. > ... should be created randomly or semi-randomly. > ... should not be a suggestion when you type in the first few characters into Google.

As for your cited tester, you seem to have ignored every single piece of advice on the page and it seems it doesn't test for it in an automated way. I'd say, in this case, the problem is a bug in the tester rather than the truth of that being "safe".

If you had followed the guidelines, yes, it'd likely be reasonably safe.

Re: Passphrases You Can Memorize That Even the NSA Can’t Guess

#17
I used this concept a while back to generate 7-word passphrases with 84 bits of entropy. I picked a list of popular words and filtered it down to 4270 that are reasonably short and memorable:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dbasch/clj-brainwallet/mas...

Here's a browser implementation. I wouldn't use it (do you trust your browser's prng? Do you trust my code?) but it's fun to see the passphrases it generates, and how easy it is to create a story to remember them.

http://diegobasch.com/passgen/

Same thing applied to generating bitcoin brainwallets. Once again, don't use this. It was just a fun experiment to see if I could keep money in my brain.

http://diegobasch.com/brainwallet/

Re: Passphrases You Can Memorize That Even the NSA Can’t Guess

#18
post #11

I've tested the passphrase: password password password password and most of the online entropy checkers[1] says it's really safe to use such .. is this true? 1. http://rumkin.com/tools/password/passchk.php

The entropy checker doesn't know about externalities like how common a word is or how likely it is to appear following some other word or how frequently it's used in passwords specifically. It's just measuring the length of the string, and probably the class from which its characters are drawn (in your case lowercase letters and spaces).

Relevant Dilbert:

http://dilbert.com/strip/2001-10-25

Re: Passphrases You Can Memorize That Even the NSA Can’t Guess

#19
From the article:

"Unfortunately there doesn’t appear to be user-friendly software available to help people generate Diceware passphrases"

This is silly. There are popular applications for every major phone OS that implement Diceware. Does anyone feel that they're untrustworthy?

Re: Passphrases You Can Memorize That Even the NSA Can’t Guess

#20
post #11

I've tested the passphrase: password password password password and most of the online entropy checkers[1] says it's really safe to use such .. is this true? 1. http://rumkin.com/tools/password/passchk.php

The entropy checker doesn't know about externalities like how common a word is or how likely it is to appear following some other word or how frequently it's used in passwords specifically. It's just measuring the length of the string, and probably the class from which its characters are drawn (in your case lowercase letters and spaces). Relevant Dilbert: http://dilbert.com/strip/2001-10-25

my point was using some common word on purpose, expecting it to produce a low entropy result

My thinking was that "Correct Horse Battery Staple" had more entropy than: "go go go go go go go go go go go go go"

.. which, apparently, is not

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