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Australia outlaws warrant canaries

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Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#21

Post by fit2rule »

blueskin_ wrote: post #4

Australia seems to be leading the world in oppression in a way even the US has yet to manage.

This has been true of Australia for decades. The corporate elite have been using Australia as a proving-ground for their strategies for a long time now, since Australia is one of those western nations where heinous, fascist behaviour, has been permitted for centuries. The colonial/imperial systems used to rule Australian society - and destroy its previous occupants - have been refined and enhanced for application in the modern era, without much hindrance alas.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#22

Post by llamataboot »

phkahler wrote: post #12

Does anyone have a nice SVG image of a canary? Or it illegal to put that on a website?

Not sure why were downvoted here. It does seem that there is some plausible deniability about having a picture on your website that may or may not have anything to do with warrants that could still convey information to those looking for it.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#23

Post by javajosh »

steven2012 wrote: post #9

What happened in the last few years to allow our civil rights in the most forward thinking countries to unravel so easily? And why do citizens not care? How is it possible that all countries have elected such a group of corrupt, nearsighted politicians to the point where freedom is an inconvenience over them consolidating practically dictatorial power? And again, why does no one care?

It's hard for the public to care when there is no concrete evidence of harm. The government knows this and is working hard to make sure that any harm done by mass surveillance is hidden using parallel construction.

What is an interesting and useful game is to imagine a scenario which would trigger massive public outrage over the use of mass surveillance. What would really drive the point home that this is a truly dangerous amount of power? To be honest, I don't think a single major mistake with a citizen would do it (e.g. killing someone based on mass surveillance). Too many apologists would make the case that this is cherry picking and that it's just an exceptional case. A pattern of mistakes would perhaps be better (putting thousands of people on the no fly list for no reason), but these kinds of stories tend to be too cerebral for the general public to focus on (although people like Colbert and John Oliver are really good at solving that problem!)

I think the only thing that might do it would be a Watergate style scandal where one group of powerful people use the machinery to mess with another group of powerful people. Consider how much more seriously Feinstein took the CIA when it became clear they were spying on her and her staff during the torture investigations. Or Angela Merkel's reaction to her cell phone being tapped. So, unfortunately have to wait for the machinery to be wielded against the powerful because it's (clearly) easy to get away with wielding it against the rest of us.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#24

Post by kardos »

fit2rule wrote: post #20
steven2012 wrote: post #9

What happened in the last few years to allow our civil rights in the most forward thinking countries to unravel so easily? And why do citizens not care? How is it possible that all countries have elected such a group of corrupt, nearsighted politicians to the point where freedom is an inconvenience over them consolidating practically dictatorial power? And again, why does no one care?

Decadence. People don't care about civil rights, because those rights don't seem to have anything to do with the lifestyle cults that people are involved in. In Australia, particularly, where the idea of having 'a great lifestyle' trumps all other civic involvement, it should be no surprise that nobody cares - as long as you can drive to the new mall on the weekends for a bit of air-conditioned consumer protection, c…

I wonder if this is what you really believe, or if you're a shill paid to perpetuate this line of thinking to discourage/disillusion people who care about their rights.

Sure, some people don't care and are blissfully caught up in a manufactured world of consumerism, but that does not generalise to the rest of the population.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#25

Post by gumby »

coldcode wrote: post #7
blueskin_ wrote: post #4

Australia seems to be leading the world in oppression in a way even the US has yet to manage.

They actually seem more like wanting to be China South. Control everything online and you control the population.

Australia is basically a mining province of China these days. I don't mean this in some conspiracy theory sense, simply in a practical one: you can see that the exchange rate, GDP growth etc are functions of what happens to the Chinese economy.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#26

Post by marcosdumay »

mattgibson wrote: post #6
[deleted] wrote: post #3

[deleted]

It looks to me like a transition to 'inverted totalitarianism'/'managed democracy': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism The state is increasingly controlled by the hyper-wealthy individuals and corporations that fund politics, and its policies and propaganda increasingly reflect their interests. Standard totalitarianism, by contrast, is where the corporations are controlled by the state. As to whet…

> The state is increasingly controlled by the hyper-wealthy individuals and corporations that fund politics, and its policies and propaganda increasingly reflect their interests.

Looks like a standard definition of Faccism.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#27

Post by toyg »

mhurron wrote: post #15
toyg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a combination of unprecedented wealth (let's be honest, modern poverty in industrialized countries is nothing like it was back in the '50s) and the continuous rise of asymmetric warfare randomly deployed by psychopaths. In Sydney, the "cafe kidnap" attack is still fresh in everyone's mind. We've had bombs in London and Madrid, plus a number of other scares, and when a population feels threatened, they'll typical…

> We've had bombs in London Did they react this way during the Troubles? I don't think they did. I was in London in '92 and there was a bomb threat called in at the tube station one stop over. It delayed the train for a bit, but that was it and everyone continued on like normal. This time the US freaks out because the world came to their doorstep and they flip out because they have no idea how to handle it. The leade…

This technique was first theorized and practiced by CIA in Europe (and likely KGB elsewhere) during the Cold War. In Italy they called it "Tension Strategy", as in "keeping people tense" with fear of attacks and bombs so they will allow the government to get and maintain illiberal powers or even allow a Chilean-style coup d'état.

During the Troubles, the UK had its fair share of "freaking out", banning public bins (only recently re-introduced), criminalizing the Irish community, and basically allowing police and military to do whatever they wanted in Northern Ireland (with lots of abuses being recognised and pursued only today). A famous Irish comedian joked a few years ago that he loved all Muslims, because they've now replaced the Irish as standard bogeymen ("... and now us Irish are just those funny people from Riverdance!").

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#28

Post by gumby »

toyg wrote: post #10
steven2012 wrote: post #9

What happened in the last few years to allow our civil rights in the most forward thinking countries to unravel so easily? And why do citizens not care? How is it possible that all countries have elected such a group of corrupt, nearsighted politicians to the point where freedom is an inconvenience over them consolidating practically dictatorial power? And again, why does no one care?

It's a combination of unprecedented wealth (let's be honest, modern poverty in industrialized countries is nothing like it was back in the '50s) and the continuous rise of asymmetric warfare randomly deployed by psychopaths. In Sydney, the "cafe kidnap" attack is still fresh in everyone's mind. We've had bombs in London and Madrid, plus a number of other scares, and when a population feels threatened, they'll typical…

This kind of thing was rampant in the 1910s and 1960s (with the communists and anarchists in the earlier case and various disaffected and political groups in the later). They were also periods of high growth in wealth.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#29

Post by maxlybbert »

mhurron wrote: post #15
toyg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a combination of unprecedented wealth (let's be honest, modern poverty in industrialized countries is nothing like it was back in the '50s) and the continuous rise of asymmetric warfare randomly deployed by psychopaths. In Sydney, the "cafe kidnap" attack is still fresh in everyone's mind. We've had bombs in London and Madrid, plus a number of other scares, and when a population feels threatened, they'll typical…

> We've had bombs in London Did they react this way during the Troubles? I don't think they did. I was in London in '92 and there was a bomb threat called in at the tube station one stop over. It delayed the train for a bit, but that was it and everyone continued on like normal. This time the US freaks out because the world came to their doorstep and they flip out because they have no idea how to handle it. The leade…

I understand that the British government did a lot during the Troubles. For one, the right to remain silent was weakened. Special counterterrorism units were created ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Reaction_Force ), which were accused of committing several crimes. And, although it wasn't an official policy, businesses added enough closed circuit television cameras that it became impossible to pull off anonymous attacks in London.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#30

Post by fit2rule »

kardos wrote: post #24
fit2rule wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decadence. People don't care about civil rights, because those rights don't seem to have anything to do with the lifestyle cults that people are involved in. In Australia, particularly, where the idea of having 'a great lifestyle' trumps all other civic involvement, it should be no surprise that nobody cares - as long as you can drive to the new mall on the weekends for a bit of air-conditioned consumer protection, c…

I wonder if this is what you really believe, or if you're a shill paid to perpetuate this line of thinking to discourage/disillusion people who care about their rights. Sure, some people don't care and are blissfully caught up in a manufactured world of consumerism, but that does not generalise to the rest of the population.

I'm an Australian who is quite disappointed with his culture - call it cultural-cringe, if you will - and who finds the never-ending encroachment of strip-mall/parking-lot/tract-houses across the beautiful Australian landscape a real travesty. The cookie-cutter homes, the non-stop "New Thing™" to which the Australian Now-generation are endlessly upgrading, and so on. This is all very disappointing to have observed over many decades now.

So .. no .. I'm no paid shill, mate - I truly think that Australia is a dystopian nightmare society, caught in a trance of consumption and lifestyle, and which I find less and less appealing as I get older. I'd love to see Australians care more about their rights - maybe you can enlighten me as to where and when that is happening? All I see is loss of interest, and a desire to simply keep calm and carry on, while it all gets eroded towards the feudal master-plan: Sell the resources, keep the change, and don't .. at any cost .. acknowledge the failure of modern Australian civilization to address the wrongs enacted on the natives, newcomers, and boat people.

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