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Australia outlaws warrant canaries

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Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#11

Post by aetherson »

mattgibson wrote: post #6
[deleted] wrote: post #3

[deleted]

It looks to me like a transition to 'inverted totalitarianism'/'managed democracy': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism The state is increasingly controlled by the hyper-wealthy individuals and corporations that fund politics, and its policies and propaganda increasingly reflect their interests. Standard totalitarianism, by contrast, is where the corporations are controlled by the state. As to whet…

What are the corporations/who are the wealthy people you imagine are driving this? What corporate interests do you think this serves?

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#13

Post by mnw21cam »

Cool. So, if I was to publicly announce "I have never been given a warrant demanding I hand over data by the Australian government", then I will have committed a crime attracting a two year prison sentence, and I should never visit the country?

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#14

Post by pcrh »

steven2012 wrote: post #9

What happened in the last few years to allow our civil rights in the most forward thinking countries to unravel so easily? And why do citizens not care? How is it possible that all countries have elected such a group of corrupt, nearsighted politicians to the point where freedom is an inconvenience over them consolidating practically dictatorial power? And again, why does no one care?

Technology. Mass surveillance was impracticable 20 years ago, and is now fairly easy (at least on the internet).

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#15

Post by mhurron »

toyg wrote: post #10
steven2012 wrote: post #9

What happened in the last few years to allow our civil rights in the most forward thinking countries to unravel so easily? And why do citizens not care? How is it possible that all countries have elected such a group of corrupt, nearsighted politicians to the point where freedom is an inconvenience over them consolidating practically dictatorial power? And again, why does no one care?

It's a combination of unprecedented wealth (let's be honest, modern poverty in industrialized countries is nothing like it was back in the '50s) and the continuous rise of asymmetric warfare randomly deployed by psychopaths. In Sydney, the "cafe kidnap" attack is still fresh in everyone's mind. We've had bombs in London and Madrid, plus a number of other scares, and when a population feels threatened, they'll typical…

> We've had bombs in London

Did they react this way during the Troubles? I don't think they did. I was in London in '92 and there was a bomb threat called in at the tube station one stop over. It delayed the train for a bit, but that was it and everyone continued on like normal.

This time the US freaks out because the world came to their doorstep and they flip out because they have no idea how to handle it. The leaders flip out causes the population to freak out and they trun around and grant legal weight to every stupid idea that comes flying out of polititians mouths.

It seems the UK learned from this, so when there is a little bomb plot in London, the leaders go full retard, the people get scared and do the same thing.

It's like everyone figured out the best way to get more power is to act like you've been caught with your pants down so that you're the one who scared the population, not whatever actually happened. After everyone has finished running around like a chicken with it's head cut off and the dust settles, the government finds itself with all these extra powers.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#16

Post by pyre »

mhurron wrote: post #15
toyg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a combination of unprecedented wealth (let's be honest, modern poverty in industrialized countries is nothing like it was back in the '50s) and the continuous rise of asymmetric warfare randomly deployed by psychopaths. In Sydney, the "cafe kidnap" attack is still fresh in everyone's mind. We've had bombs in London and Madrid, plus a number of other scares, and when a population feels threatened, they'll typical…

> We've had bombs in London Did they react this way during the Troubles? I don't think they did. I was in London in '92 and there was a bomb threat called in at the tube station one stop over. It delayed the train for a bit, but that was it and everyone continued on like normal. This time the US freaks out because the world came to their doorstep and they flip out because they have no idea how to handle it. The leade…

You're also forgetting the 24/7 news cycle on stations like CNBC, CNN, Fox News, etc.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#17

Post by javajosh »

mattgibson wrote: post #6
[deleted] wrote: post #3

[deleted]

It looks to me like a transition to 'inverted totalitarianism'/'managed democracy': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism The state is increasingly controlled by the hyper-wealthy individuals and corporations that fund politics, and its policies and propaganda increasingly reflect their interests. Standard totalitarianism, by contrast, is where the corporations are controlled by the state. As to whet…

>The state is increasingly controlled by the hyper-wealthy individuals and corporations that fund politics, and its policies and propaganda increasingly reflect their interests.

The root problem isn't money in politics, but alienation of voters from the the real business of government, a business people must understand if they are to hire (elect) the right people to run it. Political money just fills the void of that ignorance. That business is fundamentally an allocation game that starts with accumulation from taxes, fines and fees and ends with a set of spending decisions over time. This "spending decision set" represents a much greater degree-of-freedom than the traditional, policy-obsessed "how a bill becomes a law" narrative from school would imply. One key part is the appointment game, where an elected executive leader assigns arbitrary people to run major government departments, who themselves get wide discretion with "operational policy", policies that have the most impact on tax payers and yet get the least attention.

So, yeah, let's start focusing on government as a hierarchy of allocation and policy decisions.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#18

Post by jgrahamc »

mhurron wrote: post #15
toyg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a combination of unprecedented wealth (let's be honest, modern poverty in industrialized countries is nothing like it was back in the '50s) and the continuous rise of asymmetric warfare randomly deployed by psychopaths. In Sydney, the "cafe kidnap" attack is still fresh in everyone's mind. We've had bombs in London and Madrid, plus a number of other scares, and when a population feels threatened, they'll typical…

> We've had bombs in London Did they react this way during the Troubles? I don't think they did. I was in London in '92 and there was a bomb threat called in at the tube station one stop over. It delayed the train for a bit, but that was it and everyone continued on like normal. This time the US freaks out because the world came to their doorstep and they flip out because they have no idea how to handle it. The leade…

> Did they react this way during the Troubles?

We had certain other reactions that were themselves troubling. Such as this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%9394_British_broadc...

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#19

Post by CyberDildonics »

pcrh wrote: post #14
steven2012 wrote: post #9

What happened in the last few years to allow our civil rights in the most forward thinking countries to unravel so easily? And why do citizens not care? How is it possible that all countries have elected such a group of corrupt, nearsighted politicians to the point where freedom is an inconvenience over them consolidating practically dictatorial power? And again, why does no one care?

Technology. Mass surveillance was impracticable 20 years ago, and is now fairly easy (at least on the internet).

Knowing what we know I'm constantly surprised an always encrypted IP layer isn't more of an issue for people.

Re: Australia outlaws warrant canaries

#20

Post by fit2rule »

steven2012 wrote: post #9

What happened in the last few years to allow our civil rights in the most forward thinking countries to unravel so easily? And why do citizens not care? How is it possible that all countries have elected such a group of corrupt, nearsighted politicians to the point where freedom is an inconvenience over them consolidating practically dictatorial power? And again, why does no one care?

Decadence. People don't care about civil rights, because those rights don't seem to have anything to do with the lifestyle cults that people are involved in. In Australia, particularly, where the idea of having 'a great lifestyle' trumps all other civic involvement, it should be no surprise that nobody cares - as long as you can drive to the new mall on the weekends for a bit of air-conditioned consumer protection, can watch all the latest crap from the UK/USA on television every day, and can generally just kick back and relax and enjoy 'the good life', who cares what rights are taken from you? As long as "I've got mine", where "mine" is variously defined by corporate masters whose marketing-mind-control rules every aspect of that lifestyle, in an ultimately feudal system, nobody really gives a shit ..
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