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Why English sucks as the language for international and scientific communication

madore.org

31–40 of 57 posts

Re: Why English sucks as the language for international and scientific communication

#31

Once I read that German is the language of science. I'm sorry HN people for not remembering exactly where, but it easy to find a ton of results about this on Google: http://bit.ly/1CewLMB

German was the language of science decades ago. Before that, it was Latin. Before that, it was Greek. (Your mileage may vary in various regions.) Things change.

Re: Why English sucks as the language for international and scientific communication

#32
post #7

My, what a collection of old chestnuts. * All his bugs are features: malleability and adaptability are English's strengths. * Most languages proliferate their vocabulary to express all the needed shades of meaning, English uses Norman/German vocab to distinguish formality just as Japanese uses wago/kanji compounds. * Basic English's claim to a limited vocabulary only makes sense if you ignore the many implicit phrasa…

> malleability and adaptability are English's strengths

My understanding of this point was that he sees this as both a strength and a weakness. It's a feature for expressiveness, and a bug for interoperability.

Re: Why English sucks as the language for international and scientific communication

#33

Once I read that German is the language of science. I'm sorry HN people for not remembering exactly where, but it easy to find a ton of results about this on Google: http://bit.ly/1CewLMB

That changed dramatically after the second world war. There is a good article about it here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29543708

Re: Why English sucks as the language for international and scientific communication

#35
post #7

My, what a collection of old chestnuts. * All his bugs are features: malleability and adaptability are English's strengths. * Most languages proliferate their vocabulary to express all the needed shades of meaning, English uses Norman/German vocab to distinguish formality just as Japanese uses wago/kanji compounds. * Basic English's claim to a limited vocabulary only makes sense if you ignore the many implicit phrasa…

To make a dot-point list, preface each line with four spaces. HN interprets that as 'code snippet' and keeps your formatting.

On-topic, one thing I see missing when I read articles detracting from English is the benefits of English. Like not having genders for non-gendered things. This article talks of ambiguity in English, but in turn an English student doesn't have to figure out whether a pair of scissors is male or female.

Re: Why English sucks as the language for international and scientific communication

#36
post #21

I understand the issues with English and well Latin is a great scientific language BUT... English is the most spoken language in the world. There are 4 times as many second language speakers for each native English speakers. I totally get the issues listed. I am a native English speakers with horrible Spanish skills and 4 years of ancient Hebrew and Greek studies. English just works as a language for people and it is…

According to Wikipedia [0] Mandarin has slightly more speakers. 1200M vs 1350M.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_num...

Re: Why English sucks as the language for international and scientific communication

#37
No one got up one morning and said, "You know what? We really should be conducting all of our business in English." It was the result of many years, and many different accidents of history that led to English having its current position in the world. World War II, the growth of American industry, the dominant position that the US has played in research and business, and the growth of the computer industry in the US all led to English being adopted world-wide. And you're not going to change that now.

Every language has its own trade-offs. It's totally true that English has crazy spelling, a huge vocabulary, and lots of ambiguous syntax. But it uses a simple alphabet, and doesn't have a centralized body making decisions about its direction, which also gives it flexibility.

So yes, maybe Spanish or German would have been a better choice. But that implies that there was a "choice" to be made. There wasn't.

It's definitely true that this has resulted in native English speakers having advantages over other people. But unless we decide to use an artificial language that is native to no one, there will always be some native-speaking group with an advantage. Fortunately, the diversity and flexibility of English are such that even if someone has an accent or stilted syntax, they're still (largely) accepted, and are able to get their points across.

Re: Why English sucks as the language for international and scientific communication

#38
The large size of the English lexicon isn't just a result of the Norman invasion and subsequent merging of Old English and Norman French. During the renaissance, a huge number of words were consciously imported into English from classical Greek and Latin by scholars and scientists seeking to make English a better language for learned discourse. The so-called "inkhorn controversy"[1] arose when some other writers objected to all these new, foreign-sounding words, particularly those for which there was already a suitable alternative in English. Despite the objections, many of the new words did gain acceptance, and the English lexicon swelled accordingly.

So it's a little ironic that one of the author's chief complaints is partly a result of scientists trying to turn English into a scientific language in the first place.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkhorn_term

Re: Why English sucks as the language for international and scientific communication

#39
post #23
post #13

"I am not trying to argue that we should now give up English for international or scientific communication, or try to replace it with this or that other language (except possibly in a limited way, e.g., see below on Basic English). I am not proposing to use Interlingua, Esperanto, Latin, Italian, Chinese, Russian, or anything else: I am maybe saying that we should have used Interlingua, Esperanto, Latin, Italian, Chi…

Nor does he address the creation of dialects, an odd omission given how much time he dedicates to analyzing the ways different speakers of english dialects may misunderstand himself. Italian, for example, is primarily spoken in Italy and almost nowhere else except by expat Italians. If Italian were to explode as an international language, you can be sure there would be regional dialects pop up that may misunderstand…

My wife speaks Italian. My brother-in-law also speaks Italian. However, they both speak different dialects (Sicilian and Bari), and have a hard enough time understanding one another. So, there is no need to wait for it to explode. =)

Re: Why English sucks as the language for international and scientific communication

#40
post #28
post #6

> "there is no such English word as costlily;" There isn't? I've certainly used it as such.

A few times in conversations I've found myself trying to force "friendlily" (friendly as an adverb) out of my mouth. Aside from me tripping on my tongue trying to pronounce it, the people around me understood what I was saying just fine.

Adverbs for adjectives ending in -ly end in -like instead, e.g. "costly-like", "friendly-like".
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