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Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

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Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#81
This is a classic fight or flight situation [0] where you are choosing flight.

There is no use being quiet at work. Everyone knows you are a junior so it's ok to act like one. Ask questions. Say "I don't know how to do this. Can you show me?" You'll find that even the "rock stars" don't know everything. It may be hard to ask those questions without feeling discomfort, embarrassment or even anger. Leverage those feelings to ask the hard questions. This might help alleviate some of the suffering you experience after work.

If none of that works then it's time to look for another job.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#82
post #27

1 month of hard learning should allow you to up your game pretty significantly. 6 month + hands-on experience should get you very close to level playing field. It been said that 1 year is enough to become an expert in any field having enough focusing and persistence. What important in this is not their attitudes. It's your attitude on stuff that surrounds you. If you believe that you need to call yourself dumb and pu…

Yes to this! Just by virtue of you asking this question means you are not the dumbest guy. You at least know you need to learn. Truly dumb guys...well...

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#83
The "worst case" scenario (in terms of this current company) is that you are let go or quit—that's not so bad in the grand scheme of things. So, what experiments can you try to either improve your reception or learn as much as possible before that moment..?

Ask questions.

Your 'supeeriors' may be ninja rock star behemoths, but they are not immune to simple psychological techniques, like reciprocity. Asking questions and requesting favors has a tendency to make the other person actually like you more and be more willing to help you out further down the line.

It's counter-intuitive, but it has a lot to do with the sunk-cost fallacy and leveraging others' cognitive dissonance; i.e.: "if I'm such a great person/talent and I spent the time/effort to help this person out, they must be more like me than I previously thought."

Beyond the persuasive benefits of asking questions, you'll (ideally) learn more about yourself and come across as more open and approachable to your peers, which is good.

More importantly, don't compare yourself to your coworkers to determine your worth for the company. Are you better today than you were yesterday?

The best leaders and most productive people I know ask more questions than anyone else and are very skilled at listening to what people are telling them. Just because you were "thrown to the lions" doesn't mean you have to become one via trial by fire. Lions have too much pride.

Just ask questions. Position yourself to be better tomorrow than you are today.

Worst case: you're out of there and on to something else (which could very well be the same). Best case: people start seeing your value and you improve your rate of learning.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#85
You said you are in a "quite desirable software company", so I assume it is not a small one (especially if people have a bad mentality). Just hang on for a while, and try to move on to another team: you can claim that the culture in your current team doesn't fit, and try to find one that's more open to juniors. From my experience a lot of senior engineers are more than happy to help if you "do your homework first", which you seem to be doing since you work very hard every night.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#86
1. Feelings can be useful tools. "Confidence" is not "worth" or "value". Self-Esteem can be confused with confidence. It's important to be precise. Being snubbed by a co-worker, your question is really related to social skills. People act like jerks for many different reasons, but a confidence founded in reality--and not others opinions--is a strong and real confidence. You are there to solve problems, create solutions, do that, your reality confidence will grow.

2. You ask if it's normal I suspect to see if you would encounter this "style" elsewhere. It's probably more common than not depending on the organizational culture and budget. Older, bigger, companies that bring you in as a "junior" level usually have mentor programs and some even formal.

3. I don't know the answer to that. The word "all" usually is a signal that the answer is no. But to achieve a very high level of expertise probably requires foregoing lots of other learning (i.e. social skills) that other people encounter as they mature. But rotten attitudes can be found everywhere.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#87
Hey! I just want to share an experience, hope it helps. I am a mechatronics engineer who got into a software company in my last year. I did it for the experience, I didn't even know JS, just C++ and some java. They thrown me into front end develpment in a framework I didn't even know it existed. Some hard months came through. Some people where nice and humble, some well selfish and didn't bother to explain anything. So I kept on learning, started with JS, Html and CSS. I downloaded books and videos, read a lot of blogs (I got to know HN there and I am a user since), got into the world of develpment, started to ask questions on StackO, trying to answer some. Latter got into Angular, ExtJs, mongo and many other stuff, I am glad I got in in the first place, the fact that I didn't know anything and that I felt I didn't belong made me study harder. Nowadays I work there part time, got my first big project and some customer for it, and I am in charge in the whore software part. I got to realize that the software industry is a wide wide field, just look for something you feel confortable at and give your best. There is always news things to learn, that is why I love software develpment :)

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#88
post #59

1. I feel I handled this wrongly, and started with too much confidence. If I am the least knowledgeable person, and a co-worker ignores, despises and almost makes fun of me for your lack of experience, how should I act in order to maintain my dignity but also be humble enough to acknowledge the co-worker's knowledge? There are two questions here. First of all confidence is not a bad thing. When too much confidence en…

> Personally I don't think there is such a thing as ninja or rock star software developers.

Ingo Molnar?

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#89
Ask lots.

Its easy to feel intimidated in an environment where you perceive everyone as smarter (like my first job). Even what you consider stupid questions. That happened in my first job. Not so much big ego's but smart and introverted, and not very good at communication. Don't worry about looking stupid.

As a result I didn't do very well. Appraisal time came around and I was told I was close to getting fired.

Basically I took another job before that happened, and learned from my mistakes. At the time it seemed all my fault, but looking back it was pretty poor management. Next job I asked about anything I was struggling with (it helped the group were a bit more extroverted in general).

If it doesn't get better after a few more months, its probably time to move on. There are plenty of decent places to be a junior.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#90
(1) As long as your goal is to aggressively learn and grow and understand, then your dignity is certifiable. (I'll even print you out a certificate if you ask!) So act as one aggressively interested in learning. If these guys are really that good/worth their salt, they will appreciate your eagerness to learn from them.

(2) This isn't uncommon. Our industry needs to have better professional training for juniors IMHO.

(3) No. I've found that the better someone is the more interested they are in teaching and bringing others up to the task. The guys with rotten attitudes tend to plateau and remain B+ players at best.

A couple words of advice:

* While you should always seek good mentors, it's imperative that you take your growth into your own hands. Read and practice as much as you can on your own. Read the book "Mastery" by George Leonard.

* Read the book Mindset. In the parlance of that book, rotten attitudes generally equate with the "fixed mindset" and those guys will plateau.

* Focus on your self. It may be the right decision to run away from these bitter jerks. But you may find that by focusing on your growth some of them may loosen up and help you grow. You can still learn from jerks, and as long as you stay growth mindset, you will surpass them over time. Patient focus and study! (If the environment however is truly toxic for you, then, yes, flee. If you flee, however, flee to an environment that is still challenging and has expertise that you can aggressively learn from.)

* Focus on your (future) self. Don't think "I'm an idiot now" (even us experts are missing a huge mountain of knowledge and understanding and are idiots ourselves). It's a gift to "see" what you don't know. Because now you can go work toward filling that gap.

Hope this helps!

[edited. fixed typos and clarified advice]

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