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Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

bbc.co.uk

211–220 of 277 posts

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#211
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This responsibility is to great to leave it to humans. Automate this stuff.

I think in the near term a possible remote override from air traffic control would make more sense.

That's a nice thought, but how would ATC determine what needs to be done? We are only finding out that this was an intentional act long after the plane has hit the ground. For all ATC knows, opening the door to the cockpit could be the WRONG action. If no one is responding from the cockpit, they have no clue what is going on other than the telemetry they are getting from radar and the plane's systems (which in this case wouldn't tell them much).

In fact, pilots are trained to communicate AFTER they have gotten the plane in a state to where they can either continue the flight or ditch safely if communication would distract them from the task at hand. ATC knows this, so even if they saw the plane dropping like a sack of rocks, they would probably assume that there was a problem and that the pilots are in a position in which a steep dive will help mitigate the problem (which can happen, such as depressurization).

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#212
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way of telling though. Maybe a terrorist attack would have happened a week earlier if the terrorist didn't know they couldn't get past the locked door, so they didn't try it.

Horrible logic.

why?

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#213

2020: Airbus announces no-pilots planes 2025: All airplanes are now required to be auto-piloted 2030: It's been 5 years without a single accident

2025, Q2: Airbus remote execution vulnerability discovered. (Did you just assume 100% reliable HW+SW, on Hacker News ? That's some serious handwaving...)

Full disclosure of the vulnerability revealed by the Google team zero implicate Windows update mechanism originally devised to allow flyers to play online with their premium ultimate+ Live account. (where would we be without a bit of Microsoft hate? ....)

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#214

2020: Airbus announces no-pilots planes 2025: All airplanes are now required to be auto-piloted 2030: It's been 5 years without a single accident

2025, Q2: Airbus remote execution vulnerability discovered. (Did you just assume 100% reliable HW+SW, on Hacker News ? That's some serious handwaving...)

You can hardly compare an embedded software running on an Airplane to an Internet facing web server.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#215
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder, since the plane wasnt nosediving, it was descending, and the radars could probably detect that it wasnt descending to any place to land. Couldn't a remote operator stop the descent?

No. This is not Hollywood, and A320 is not a UAV. There's no option "hack into the thing and fly it from the back seat" (do I need to explain, here on HN, why a lack of remote control is also a Good Thing? "I've got the same combination on my luggage!")

It is extremely scary to me that you have to point this out to individuals. How does the reasoning process work for people who think like that? It must go something like "I can share photos with my mom on Facebook, so it must be possible to remotely fly a plane! #technologythatdoesntexistyet"

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#216
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine. You authorize the whole crew, not by fingerprint and not by code, but by voice recognition and secret code words per person. Then you allow the override to be overridden by a majority (recursively). Sounds way better than making the door break when a majority of people kicks at them. It is faster than remembering and entering codes, and cannot be overridden by one sick authorized person. An attacker would have…

I guess you are making fun of someone, but that is a good demonstration why too complex procedures are not a good idea. Any procedure that aircraft crew is supposed to handle also needs to be something that is trained, memorized, and practiced regularly. Certain simplicity is ideal.

No. It is certainly not my intention to make fun of the case that a copilot is able to control a machine and crash it at his will. Lufthansa is saying "there is no system that can prevent this kind of incident". They will have to take the possibility into account that you have to protect the plane against an authorized person as well, and think about possible solutions to this problem. Solving conflicting interests is not an easy task.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How To Lock and Unlock Airbus A320 Cockpit Door - Description and Procedures https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEHV7c3VXs

The acting in that video is first class.

I don't know. I think the actors could use a good... Coach.

YEEEEAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#218

> Passengers were not aware of the impending crash "until very last moment" when screams could be heard This is nightmare fuel. I cannot imagine what they went through. No human should have to end their life this way...such a tragedy.

It's also unlikely to be true. If they can hear the pilot trying to break the cockpit door down on the CVR, then there is little doubt that most passengers on an A319 can also hear/see same.

Maybe they didn't start screaming until it was obvious that they were going to crash, but they knew that the captain couldn't get back into the cockpit long before that.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#219
This is all very premature, isn't it?

It would be nice before someone is accused of deliberately killing 150 people for no reason to confirm that

- the correct code was put in - there was no malfunction in the door release system - and the descent was deliberate

I haven't read anything on possibly alternate scenarios causing the crash, yet they all seem more probable.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#220
post #3

Is there any good reason that auto-pilot could not be enabled to override suicidal actions of a pilot? Perhaps a system that requires input from both pilot and co-pilot to override?

What happens when a pilot has had a heart attack and there is only a co-pilot? Averting and intentional maneuver could also hamper the ability to fly the aircraft and given that these incidents, while they result in huge loss of life, are incredibly rare. As such the cost/benefit is not there. But fuck that co-pilot.

"Co-pilot" is just a colloquial term for the first officer on a flight. Both the captain and first officer are "pilots" and both are fully qualified to operate the plane.

http://www.askthepilot.com/copilots-are-pilots-too/

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