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Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

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Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#71
I haven't read the other responses but here's my take

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that humility might be the best course of action.

Keep learning, and growing. It's harder for some to do that when your coworkers are lower in skill because you won't have the mix of talent and experience. You need to learn not just in your field, but everything related to it: communication and interpersonal skills, business. Taking an interest in those and putting time into practicing or reading up on them is a great way to advance yourself.

Always be open to learning from your peers, but you don't have to think that their way is the best or only way. Even if they have more experience or seem smarter they're not always right (and the fact that they have the attitude of some mid-level developers means they are likely to still make the same mistakes).

Don't get too down on yourself for screwing up. Remember that you need experience just like everyone else and there's no shortcut for that. It will just be a matter of time before you're the same level of smartness that they are right now. You might close the gap some.

Keep kindling your passion for learning and improving.

-mh

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#72
You are the dumbest guy in the room! Rejoice! This is the perfect environment for you and you should be thankful for it and here is why... 1) You are the idiot so no one really expects anything good to come from you. It's just a job, if you are treated like a human resource then they are just a paycheck. 2) Failure is a great teacher. Bu being the "dumb" one you can make mistakes and no one will make a big fuss. Your mistakes will likely never get committed because everyone will make it their mission to find all your errors. 3) "keeps me silent for most of the meetings" & "By night I" have a quick dinner and bury myself in intense study." --Boo HOO, it's about damm time! where have you been? If your parents knew that all they had to do to shut you up get you motivated to study is a bit of emotional abuse, then they would have started when you were a kid. I bet you a really regretting spending high school chasing after Mary Jane Rottencrotch. 4) "Do all star/ninja/rock-star software developers have rotten attitudes?" No. These guys sound like total tools.Collect a paycheck until you are fired, cram as much information as you can into your head and remember in your next job what it was like to be the idiot in the room and don't abuse the next generation. 5) "Is it normal to be hired as a junior and just being thrown to the lions, with no help or time to ramp up?" Yes.At the higher levels of code slingers this happens way to often. Graduating with a CS degree is just a license to ramp up the learning curve. I can say that I have honestly performed and written about 5 Dissertations in the last 5 years where the first one took me 3 years. 6) "how should I act in order to maintain my dignity but also be humble enough to acknowledge the co-worker's knowledge?" - Don't be humble, you are not good enough to be humble. Be yourself. Study as hard as you possibly can and try to catch up. It is a "win win" for you. If you crash and burn, you might be able to find a job that is more suitable for you by riding the borrowed glory for you smarter team members. If you succeed, congratulations! You will be considered the nicest ninja rockstar developer in comparison to your a-hole co-workers.

The pressure is off. The level of expectations is low and you are getting paid to learn. You will probably not be there long because you will quit due to the social situation or be fired for not cutting it.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#73
It sounds like you landed on a shitty team and you should try to find another team, look for a mentor, or move on. There are a lot of programmers with terrible personalities, and not only are you not the first one to encounter this, but you're not rare in having this experience.

There's so much in this field that no one knows it all. I've been doing this for almost a decade and I still encounter concepts and technologies that are new to me. I've gotten deep into Haskell of late, but I still don't know what "homotopy type theory" is or much category theory beyond the superficial. That's OK. Just learn things and, if you have time, build things. You'll get better over time.

Also, the false sense of incompetence (impostor syndrome) is very common in the early years. It's depressing and brutal, but you can beat it.

[H]ow should I act in order to maintain my dignity but also be humble enough to acknowledge the co-worker's knowledge?

Find people who you are comfortable asking for help from. You have nothing to be ashamed of. No one was born knowing how Git works.

Is it normal to be hired as a junior and just being thrown to the lions, with no help or time to ramp up?

Dysfunctional but fairly common, especially in the "hot" Valley startups that are often run by adolescents. You're not alone. You'll get through it. Just keep learning, not because you feel a need to, but because you're interested. Of course, if you're not interested in learning more about programming and CS, then it's time to consider something else.

Do all star/ninja/rock-star software developers have rotten attitudes?

First, I'd bet that they aren't that good. There are plenty of people who can talk a good game, who know buzzwords and hot technologies and trends, but are mediocre programmers. They write code fast and they're great at making themselves seem smart (especially to non-technical business operators) but their code is often of low quality.

Most of the really good programmers are humble, just because it's really hard to get any good-- you have to consistently fight your way to better projects, which often gets political and that can be very draining-- and it takes a long time. Although our industry fetishizes youth, almost all of the great programmers are over 40, just because it takes so long to develop the skill.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#74
Guess I'm in the rock star league, but I don't think I have a shitty attitude. I've worked with lots of weak programmers over the years and it can be disconcerning but that doesn't mean you should be an asshole for that.

When people you work with asks "what's this strange Dictionary class you're using?" you take a deep sigh (internally, not so that they hear it) and explains that "a dictionary is a hash" and then they ask "what is a hash?" and you say "it's something that converts from one type to another, say english words to german words"

It causes conflict no matter what you do so you try to reduce the risk of it. "What is a linked list?" you answer correctly and helpfully "It's like an array it's easy to insert and remove elements from. I've some books at home explaining data structures you might want to borrow?"

It's only when people refuse to take advice that you get the right to be impatient with them. For example, you might review someones code and point out the logical errors in it and if they don't believe you, you might even make a test case which crashes their code. If they then say "well, that's unlikely to happen in production anyway" then you know you're wasting your time with them. Better just let them "sink" on their own.

Btw, have you asked your colleagues for help? Maybe they are introverted and that is why you think they have a rotten attitude? Maybe they aren't as bright as you think because I've never met a great programmer who wasn't always willing to help underachievers.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#75
Romans 12:20 "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."

Try being super nice to these guys. Maybe you will find that they are just as insecure as you and you can break through their shells. If you give that an honest effort and they don't break, get the hell out of there!

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#76

Basically, intelligence is a speed of processing. Assumedly every human being, given enough time, would be able to solve the same set of problems. The thing is that we only have 80 years to solve them! And also, there are more problems to be solved than anybody can in this small time frame, even with a IQ of 1000 (speed of processing). Now what does that mean for the slower minds, in a competitive environment? You ca…

Am going to say that it has more to do with the size of ones working memory capacity. The depth that one can examine things.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#77
I've been there.

I was hired for just having a phd in engineering (unrelated to CS) and knowing about hacker news (it was an interview question!).

I was in over my head technically and with little time to catch up. Most of my colleagues were chill, but three or four were jerks. Nasty types, who fed on other's pain. My manager was a cool guy.

I entered a feedback loop of negativity which affected my focus at work. Eventually I quit and returned to working in my field (which I don't enjoy, but at least I can perform while I'm training in something better)

Positives:

I learned about programing practices, which is useful to my current work. Within my field, I was already a good programer. Now, for my colleagues, I'm a ninja.

Experienced start up life. The good. The bad. And the ugly.

The negative:

Wasted time.

My advise would be to figure out if you can make it for a year or so. If you can make it, hold on and move on afterwards. If you're about to break, pull the rip cord.

I pulled the cord after three months. No regrets.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#78
> 1. I feel I handled this wrongly, and started with too much confidence. If I am the least knowledgeable person, and a co-worker ignores, despises and almost makes fun of me for your lack of experience, how should I act in order to maintain my dignity but also be humble enough to acknowledge the co-worker's knowledge?

It sounds like you're in the same situation as the so-called "rockstar developers" once were. It's sort of like the perpetual rookie hazing process. Make the freshman feel like crap and once you become the upperclassman, it's your turn to treat the freshman like shit because you've earned it. Seems like this company has some of that going on.

> 2. Is it normal to be hired as a junior and just being thrown to the lions, with no help or time to ramp up?

Yes does happen but no it is not acceptable. Any company that does this--I would suspect they don't have amazing development practices overall.

> 3. Do all star/ninja/rock-star software developers have rotten attitudes?

As a rule of thumb, when I hear a company talk about their "ninja rockstar programmers," I run far far away. These are buzzwords typically used by incompetent companies with inflated egos. I'd actually be willing to bet that they're not as great developers as they make themselves out to be. Furthermore, good developers are good team players.

I previously worked for a company with "rockstar" developers. The company was so full of itself and the developers (while many were nice and friendly) were mediocre programmers that thought their domain expertise made them great programmers. There was one guy that would speak down to me as I was learning the domain when I was by far a better coder than him.

TLDR; Find a new place to work, your environment sounds toxic.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#79
First off, a suggestion: leave. It's not worth staying in a toxic environment full stop. On to your questions:

1. Self-confidence is fine, as is the expectation that you will receive mentoring, especially if it has been made known that you are lacking in experience. In your immediate situation, ask open questions after trying to figure it out yourself, and be firm in the knowledge that there is NOT an expectation upon you to know all this stuff already. Some of the best engineers I know ask dumb questions all the time. It is expected, outside your area of expertise, and healthy. As a junior your area of expertise is... minimal.

2. Not in a good company, with strong leadership. Junior personnel are there to be molded and guided. You can expect to be set problems outside your comfort zone, but someone should be stepping in at some point to lend a hand.

3. Absolutely not. In my experience, supposed rock-stars with shitty attitudes are not as good as they think they are. Poor attitude is often a cover for ineptitude and/or severe self-esteem problems. People who are genuinely good are usually willing to help someone who can show that they are motivated, and not wasting their time.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#80
> Do all star/ninja/rock-star software developers have rotten attitudes?

I work at IFTTT, and honestly can't say enough good things about the women and men I work with. Thoughtful, smart, great programmers and designers. Although all are world-class, I don't think anyone on the team would describe themselves in "all-star/ninja/rockstar" terms.

If you do look for a new position, I'd encourage you to look at companies' "about us" pages to get a sense of their culture, environment, attitude, and so on. (Ironically, the IFTTT "jobs" page is in serious need of an overhaul. Working on it.) Companies that do it well: Etsy, Kickstarter, Dropbox, Airbnb. Also, this great video from &yet: https://vimeo.com/97239546

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