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Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#11

Post by celticninja »

lsadam0 wrote: post #3

Is there any good reason that auto-pilot could not be enabled to override suicidal actions of a pilot? Perhaps a system that requires input from both pilot and co-pilot to override?

What happens when a pilot has had a heart attack and there is only a co-pilot? Averting and intentional maneuver could also hamper the ability to fly the aircraft and given that these incidents, while they result in huge loss of life, are incredibly rare. As such the cost/benefit is not there.

But fuck that co-pilot.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#12

Post by maxerickson »

maaarghk wrote: post #5

Is it the case on all modern planes that a co-pilot could lock out a pilot? Is there any proposal or precedent for a key-code override on the door lock?

The TV news discussed the procedure used in the US, a flight attendant waits in the cockpit for the pilot to come back (I imagine this is done elsewhere too, but they weren't clear about that).

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#14

Post by uptown »

maaarghk wrote: post #5

Is it the case on all modern planes that a co-pilot could lock out a pilot? Is there any proposal or precedent for a key-code override on the door lock?

The NY Times article has a good description of the cockpit door override procedures.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/27/world/europe/germanwings-c...

In the best-case scenario, if someone in the cockpit wants to keep people out, it sounds like the security mechanisms provide a way to do for for at least five and a half minutes.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#15

Post by bulte-rs »

maaarghk wrote: post #5

Is it the case on all modern planes that a co-pilot could lock out a pilot? Is there any proposal or precedent for a key-code override on the door lock?

There is a procedure in which the lock is overridden in case of no-response from the cockpit; it's time based so it might take somewhere between 45 seconds to 5 minutes to get the door open.

If the inhabitant of the cockpit chooses to respond with a locking command (in the case of the A320, moving the door switch forward); the door will remain closed no matter how hard you try.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#16

Post by lolo_ »

Of course it's really early so you have to be very careful as to making judgements at this point, but if it really is pilot murder/suicide there is some (limited) precedence:-

* An EgyptAir flight in 1999 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

* A Silkair (Singapore airline) flight in 1997 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185

There is debate in both flights as to whether it was murder/suicide, but the evidence is totally overwhelming that it was. Horrific but thankfully massively rare (as you might expect.) I do hope this isn't the cause here :(

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#17

Post by verytrivial »

These doors very effectively mean that control of the plane would be put into the hands of the cabin crew, but magnifies the cost of a rogue operator -- I am certain the risks were evaluated and the challenge of a determined suicidal pilot was ruled outside scope.

And yes, there are emergency override codes, but there are also time override-overrides from within the cabin. Even if the protocol where two members of staff are always in the cabin was broken (or absent), again, that does not stop a rogue operator from despatching with the other person.

The question is (hypothetical at this stage, there are a lot of details still unknown): have these type of doors already saved more lives than the ~150 tragically lost this week?

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#18

Post by Cyclenerd »

maaarghk wrote: post #5

Is it the case on all modern planes that a co-pilot could lock out a pilot? Is there any proposal or precedent for a key-code override on the door lock?

This video describes the function quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEHV7c3VXs

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#19

Post by celticninja »

herge wrote: post #8

First, remember the Breaking News Consumer's Handbook: Airline Edition ( https://media2.wnyc.org/i/620/620/l/80/1/BNCHAE.jpg ). Second, I'm sure that Mr. Robin is a nice guy, but there's no need to publish his stray speculations just two days after the crash.

It seems pretty far from stray speculations. It is assumed after a check of the black box. That is ultimately what we rely on for an after the fact analysis. If we can't use that what do we use? And you want to wait a year to find out what happened to your loved ones?
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