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Hacker School is now the Recurse Center

recurse.com

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Re: Hacker School is now the Recurse Center

#61

Post by briandear »

Jayschwa wrote: post #6
edgyswingset wrote: post #4

> “School” is bad for us because it implies the trappings of traditional schools – teachers, classes, and curricula – instead of simply a place where people learn, which is all we intended by it. This is a perfect example of focusing only on the negative aspects of something. Furthermore, I find it at odds with the goals of Bootcamps such as this (and yes, this is a bootcamp, no matter how they choose to label themse…

> Are there not instructors? Is there not some form of curriculum? Are members not evaluated in some way? There are no instructors, there is no curriculum, and members are not evaluated. It is not a bootcamp.

So it's like a commune?

Re: Hacker School is now the Recurse Center

#62

Post by briandear »

craigmccaskill wrote: post #17
curo wrote: post #12

My brain jumped to "curse" and "legal recourse," not "recursion." And I'm a software developer. Hacker School seems fine. I think you guys are over thinking it.

As they mentioned in the post, the name was clearly causing problems for their students. Prospective, current and alum.

The students were creating their own problem. A tourist visa doesn't require an itinerary. Hacker School isn't eligible to sponsor student visas. So, I wonder, what was the problem?

Re: Hacker School is now the Recurse Center

#63

Post by nicholasjbs »

briandear wrote: post #54
Someone1234 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also present this as Exhibit A for how much of a knuckle dragger most border agents are. You really do have to pick your words carefully with them as most of their job is "gut instinct" and most aren't really that well educated or informed (even as much as knowing all of the countries).

I certainly can't speak for everyone's experience with the border officials, however I'm sure that their jargon might create some difficulties for you. As far as "knowing all the countries," I've been across some borders where I've had to explain their own visas to them. For example, the type of visa and residence permit I had while I lived in China (specifically relating to multi-entry vs. single entry.) I've been h…

We have consulted with immigration lawyers and confirmed that people can legally do our retreat on a visitor visa.

We've had very few people have their visas rejected, and none as far as I know have been rejected at the border. The difficulty crossing the border I noted in the blog post was about the amount of hassle people face before being allowed into the country. That has ranged from none at all to being questioned for hours and having their email searched (but ultimately being let into the country).

Re: Hacker School is now the Recurse Center

#65

Post by nicholasjbs »

briandear wrote: post #57
majke wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had very similar experience, but was able to convince the immigration officer that Hacker School has nothing to do with Hackers nor Schools (which require F1 visas). That was a fun experience and added to the charm of the original name :)

Actually, Hacker School is vocational and requires an "M" visa. But, Hacker School isn't a Student and Exchange Visitor Program certified school. So they can't sponsor visas. Which would explain exactly why denials would be happening. The purpose of the stay is "study" but the visa type is "tourist." That's the reason for rejections. It isn't the school name that creates the problem, it's the mismatched purpose of tr…

"Actually, Hacker School is vocational and requires an "M" visa."

This is not true. See my response elsewhere on HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9265755), but the tl;dr is: We've confirmed with immigration lawyers that it's perfectly legitimate for people to come on visitor visas. A couple of people have had their visa requests denied (not because of anything specific to us but because of concerns that they would stay beyond 90 days), but no one has been rejected at the border, though some people have had a long and hard time explaining what "hacker" means to the border guards.

Re: Hacker School is now the Recurse Center

#66

Post by evolve2k »

gknoy wrote: post #44
pash wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the verb recurse is used in the name as an adjective when we already have a perfectly good adjectival form of the word— recursive —that is also more immediately familiar. People who consider recurse an ugly back-formation (preferring to recur ) will wince, cringe, and decry the gramatical turpitude all at once. But enough criticism—here's an attempt at something constructive: How about "Recursity"? The .com addre…

Sabatticode? Ah well, too late now.

Apologise I too really agree with the need to change name but don't really like the new name. With the illiterate 'curse' and 'center' it sounds like possible some health care center.

How about taking on a longer more officious sounding name 'the center for higher studies in code' or suchlike. That's possible more border friendly and I'm sure there's a bunch of options in that space.

Re: Hacker School is now the Recurse Center

#67

Post by throwaway344 »

briandear wrote: post #60
jamii wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had no problems at all. I would be interested in the correlation between rejection and skin colour.

Skin color has nothing to do with visa rejections. There are thousands of visas issued each day in all sorts of "dark skinned" countries. The issue is if the person is likely to overstay their visa. Do they have a job? A family? A bank account? Own property? Have other compelling reasons to return to their home country. If they are young, unemployed and single without many other resources; a denial is likely, for obv…

I think the GP is saying that they wonder if an equivalent Northern European with identical stats would have been rejected.

They're not disputing the fact that some white people get denied, but rather that they get denied less than other groups.

Re: Hacker School is now the Recurse Center

#69

Post by dmazin »

nicholasjbs wrote: post #53
dmazin wrote: post #16

I love Hacker School (the entity, not the name) but Recurse Center is a strange choice. "Recurse" does not bring to mind the word "recursion" by itself, and while "School" is a meaningful word, "Center" isn't. It has no umph as a phrase. The reason for the change is completely sound, but the new name is just a little strange to me.

We were mainly torn between choosing a name that was completely meaningless and one that was mostly meaningless, but which had some connotations to programming. We opted to do the latter. All the meaningful, descriptive names we could come up with -- like "Programming Retreat" -- are too generic and/or have the same problems as "Hacker School." (We also wanted to make sure we could get the .com, and we wanted to avoi…

Thank you for the reply!

I agree that meaningless phrases are good for brands, and much better than ones with baggage (as you say, in that regard Hacker School can't get much worse). And I believe that you will be able to properly add meaning to "Recurse Center."

My point with my "umph" comment was that "School" refers to an object/category, while "Center" refers to a blank entity, it's kind of a dead word (it also has a bit of a connotation of something formal and boring, like a business office center). I believe we like references to objects, not placeholders - "Sears Tower" and "Nokia Theatre" both sound better than "Staples Center." But I'm not offering advice, I'm just curious about your process. Did y'all consider things other than "Center"?

Re: Hacker School is now the Recurse Center

#70

Post by nilkn »

curo wrote: post #12

My brain jumped to "curse" and "legal recourse," not "recursion." And I'm a software developer. Hacker School seems fine. I think you guys are over thinking it.

Yes, I had the same reaction in terms of "curse" and "recourse". I think this is a very strange name. And I don't find it particularly nice to say even, due to the double "ess" sound in the middle.
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