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Can the world please standardize passwords?

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Can the world please standardize passwords?

#1
This is 2015 and I find it amazing that with all the standards bodies in the world, we have not all decided on a standardized pattern for what constitutes a password.

e.g.

- some sites require 8-12 characters. Why limit it to 12? - some sites require a number, a letter (upper and lower case), and some punctuation - some sites do not allow punctuation - some sites cannot handle upper/lower case

With the hundreds of passwords people have to remember, it is impossible to satisfy all the requirements. So that means it's impossible for many people to remember their passwords.

The worst possible violation of a secure password is to "write it down". This argument goes for password managers as well (which only work on the device that holds them). Same deal for having the browser remember your password. Not secure at all.

Banks and finance institutions are the worst offenders. They if anyone should be able to agree on what constitutes a password.

Passwords are with us for the long term. My mother is not going to use certificates to talk to her web banking.

And logging into Facebook is hardly a solution either. That's the last body that should be controlling authentication. Privacy? What's that?

So where are the global standards?

Ugh... Thanks for listening... Peter

Re: Can the world please standardize passwords?

#3
> This argument goes for password managers as well (which only work on the device that holds them).

My couple of password manager files encrypted and stored on Dropbox disagree with that one. (A couple of different ones because I like to segregate them by criticality. So I don't have to unlock the one with critical information most of the time. Reduces the attack surface.)

I can access them anywhere. Although I try not to access them on anything I don't have control over. For example: I memorize my dropbox password and my student login separately.

And it's a whole lot more secure to have a couple of long passphrases to unlock long generated passphrases for every site than to have a short password/passphrase for every site.

Re: Can the world please standardize passwords?

#4
"So that means it's impossible for many people to remember their passwords."

Good. Human-memorable is machine-crackable.

More seriously, there's work being done on this front, but specifically along the lines of eliminating passwords, because passwords are a terrible method of authentication.

See: FIDO Alliance https://fidoalliance.org/

Or my preferred item, the Yubikey: https://www.yubico.com/

In other words, a lot of your assumptions aren't necessarily correct (and there's competing interests. If I were writing a standard, I'd have all passwords be 20-characters minimum. However, that's not good for user experience)

Re: Can the world please standardize passwords?

#6
Most passwords don't matter. The example I always use is if someone guesses my HN password, so what? [1] HN is not my bank. It does not need serious security in regard to my use (not speaking for anyone else). Giving it a unique low quality password is fine. Facebook demands a bit more attention, gmail more beyond that, but neither requires life and death security either.

One reason for no single standard is there is no single level of risk. The other is that standardizing password formats makes cracking passwords more standard.

[1]: Though, I did change the trivial password I was using before first posting the example here on HN

Re: Can the world please standardize passwords?

#7
post #4

"So that means it's impossible for many people to remember their passwords." Good. Human-memorable is machine-crackable. More seriously, there's work being done on this front, but specifically along the lines of eliminating passwords, because passwords are a terrible method of authentication . See: FIDO Alliance https://fidoalliance.org/ Or my preferred item, the Yubikey: https://www.yubico.com/ In other words, a lot…

Passwords are the worst form of authentication except for all the others.

Re: Can the world please standardize passwords?

#8
I just recently signed up for dropbox, and when I did, Chromium asked me if it was cool for them to auto-gen a password and put it in my browser keyring.

Whatever method they are using, I would imagine that'll be the new standard. My passwords are decently secure, but that's hard to beat in terms of both workflow and security.

Re: Can the world please standardize passwords?

#9
Can such standard also include setting the default for echoing the password? Seeing that I have entered ### for a 5 character password is perfectly adequate. But for a 17 character password, echoing ######### does not give me useful feedback where I am or allow me to meaningfully edit mistakes.

Yeah, if I am projecting my screen in front of an audience of 300, I do not want my password echoed. But when I am using my mobile phone, getting feedback is far more useful than guarding against someone reading my screen.

Re: Can the world please standardize passwords?

#10
NO, no no no, and No!

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15753279/password-validat...

It's not a standard that can fix this problem, it's education, both between end users and developers.

One could devise a system that allows any password as long as the entropy threshold is satisfied.

The only limitation to passwords should be a minimum level of entropy (or at least length, to keep things simple) furthered by taking into account character sets, lists, etc...

Some people prefer only digits, other like sentences, while some are used to the systems currently in place at the moment with multiple custom rules.

Food for thought.

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