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Capitalism's Fundamental Flaw

forbes.com

11–20 of 96 posts

Re: Capitalism's Fundamental Flaw

#11

I think the appeal of finance is the intellectual leverage one gets there. If I am really bright and I can develop a profitable arbitrage trade in the marketplace I can turn it near instantly into millions of dollars (if I'm right, obviously the market does not give points for effort). If I'm in a start up, which we would probably consider to be very high cleverness to reward leverage, it can take a long time and hav…

> if I'm right, obviously the market does not give points for effort But the market does give points for effort. How else do you explain the bonuses awarded to bankers who damaged the economy? They were rewarded despite their antisuccess.

It's a very perverted market, where banks that would have been bankrupt if not for billions in taxpayer funds, even gets to pay their employees salary.

On the other hand, bankers in the banks that actually lived through the crisis because they didn't jump on all the fancy derivatives, actually deserves a bit fat bonus.

Re: Capitalism's Fundamental Flaw

#12
There's a fundamental flaw in the logic that concludes that "government must intervene to stop the shameless looting of taxpayer money." Taxation itself is government intervention.

Abuse of money received from a government that shamelessly loots its people for the "common good" and through manipulation of a highly regulated system is no more an indictment of Capitalism than failure to run is an indictment of a man tied to a chair.

Re: Capitalism's Fundamental Flaw

#13

I think the appeal of finance is the intellectual leverage one gets there. If I am really bright and I can develop a profitable arbitrage trade in the marketplace I can turn it near instantly into millions of dollars (if I'm right, obviously the market does not give points for effort). If I'm in a start up, which we would probably consider to be very high cleverness to reward leverage, it can take a long time and hav…

> if I'm right, obviously the market does not give points for effort But the market does give points for effort. How else do you explain the bonuses awarded to bankers who damaged the economy? They were rewarded despite their antisuccess.

You're blatantly taking that out of context. GP's idea was to "develop a profitable arbitrage trade" using one's intelligence, not to go work for a bank.

Re: Capitalism's Fundamental Flaw

#14

Antonio - good find. I read this article earlier this morning and it spoke directly to the disconnect I've noticed as well. Logistically, what do you think leaders on the Street and in business can do to curb these short-termist, corrupted practices?

If you don't mind me chiming in, I think the lesson is that there really is nothing that can be done to curb it. Why? Two reasons. First, every time we create legislation, laws and other governing to something, the problem either gets worse or creates a whole new set of issues. The problem becomes a snowball -- you can look at the examples there to see some of this. Second, the saying that goes something like "locks…

I would suggest that it was an elimination of a lot of laws regarding financial transactions and regulation that enabled the recent decline. The removal of these laws enacted to prevent a recurrence of an historical collapse, did in fact bring another collapse, so pragmatically, I would say laws help.

Re: Capitalism's Fundamental Flaw

#15

Perhaps a better title would be "Mercantilism's fundamental flaw". Rand makes few assumptions regarding the inherent integrity of "leaders"; in fact, she assumes no such integrity, and argues for liberty. While we trip over ourselves (as a society) to give up our freedoms and grant ever more sweeping power to "leaders" to save us, we will reap what we deserve -- ever greater examples of waste, bungling, abuse, malinv…

I hate to bring this to a general discussion of capitalism/Rand etc., but I have a question:

How is Rand's "liberty" supposed to be provided?

It seems to me we already live in a universe where people have as much free will as we ever will. Some people use this free will to restrict the free will of others. Sometimes this is a government, sometimes it's a corporation, or sometimes it's a kidnapper.

But what hypothetical external agent could ever ensure that no one's free will will be restricted? To have such a system would necessitate restricting people's free will so that they couldn't restrict each other's free will; it would be a self-defeating situation.

This is analogous to the set of all sets in mathematics, or other paradoxes that arise by having "all powerful" objects. Humans are so free, that we are free to kill ourselves (for instance), and remove our freedom. Likewise, we are free to disable our own free will.

How could Rand change things so that this is not the case?

In my view, governments are the result of the utter freedom we have as humans. It is simply absurd to think of getting rid of the systems that restrict freedom; if we did, the freedoms granted would simply create new systems, like corporations, or another government, that would replace all the functions of the system we got rid of.

Let me put it another way: It seems we already have maximal liberty. How are things ever going to be better in that respect?

Re: Capitalism's Fundamental Flaw

#16
post #7

If the government imposed a small tax on stock purchases and other financial transactions, with the tax level rising according to the number of intermediaries and the amount of leverage, then working in an organization through which lots of money passes would not be such a lucrative career. (And if it remained lucrative, at least the government would be able to participate in the bounty that comes from skimming a few…

working in an organization through which lots of money passes would not be such a lucrative career

No, those people would just go work for the government.

Re: Capitalism's Fundamental Flaw

#17
A sobering read about the problems our system faces is http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice.

During the last boom a full 40% of all of the profits in the system came from the non-productive activity of people manipulating cash flows. This is simply not a sustainable financial structure. History shows that economies that are based on financial manipulation rather than production don't last. The USA isn't the first to combine of financial manipulation along with the export of production and the knowledge that previous lead to persistent economic advantage. In the last several hundred years Spain, Holland and England did this. In all previous cases it was a big factor leading to financial collapse and the loss of empire.

Is there any reason to believe it will work any better for us?

Re: Capitalism's Fundamental Flaw

#18

The reason speculators can make tons of money on Wall Street, is because they can get people to play along. You don't make money because an asset you own rises. You make money because someone buys it at that price. (That's the same, I know, but it's an important point to understand - it's NOT just numbers going up and down in a computer, at the end of the chain there's actual liquid money changing hands). Now we've l…

at the end of the chain there's actual liquid money changing hands

Naked short selling doesn't require one to have any money to invest nor any shares. You can still make a lot of money and destroy a company's shares if well connected enough. The price falling on the shares is only produced by the apparent glut of shares offered for sale, they don't need to sell initially to produce a price fall, the offer is enough. Once the naked sale has iterated through a couple of loops and many other offers appear as the stock falls then the price plummets, not because of sales but because of lack of sales.

You make money because no one buys. Traders can make money any way the market moves and if sufficiently skilled and backed can make the market move - it _is_ just numbers going up and down.

Re: Capitalism's Fundamental Flaw

#19

Perhaps a better title would be "Mercantilism's fundamental flaw". Rand makes few assumptions regarding the inherent integrity of "leaders"; in fact, she assumes no such integrity, and argues for liberty. While we trip over ourselves (as a society) to give up our freedoms and grant ever more sweeping power to "leaders" to save us, we will reap what we deserve -- ever greater examples of waste, bungling, abuse, malinv…

We gave up our ability to directly monetize wealth 2 or 3 generations ago ?

Central bank money, created and debased at will, vs. Wealth-backed money, intrinsically valued by the wealth that backs it. Freedom to choose money that doesn't inflate allows multigenerational wealth transfer, etc.

Re: Capitalism's Fundamental Flaw

#20
In hindsight the present situation is pretty predictable: as the # of goods produced increases and the amount of specialization increases the value supplied by the intermediary network ("the financial system") increases.

The way the financial system is currently "architected" (a strange term, but I'll use it) it has as a class an inordinate amount of negotiating power vis-a-vis everyone else (!), and thus is able to capture much of what ought to be consumer and producer surplus.

As much of the value it adds is due to network effects just going to a gold standard (which is a popular cure-all on the internet) wouldn't change much, even if you thought that was a good idea; there's still the same tremendous problem of coordinating trade in the same complex, highly-specialized economy and the central switchboard is still ideally placed to extract most of that value.

The easiest-to-envision solution is to forcibly unbundle the basic storage-and-transmission of credits between accounts (full-reserve checking accounts, basically) and run that infrastructure as a public utility (a handful of mainframes in the fort knox). Let the private sector sell value-added services on top of this, but don't leave the basic infrastructure of value-exchange in the hands of the private sector, who will retain the ability to hold the country up for ransom.

It's an easy solution to envision but it's hard to see much happening; it is too radical a shift to go down easily (and all that surplus value captured funds a lot of lobbying) and it too closely resembles socialism and other bugaboos to be an easy sell to the public at large.

(!) Where we are now is pretty analogous to having the local power company -- which provides necessary services to its area of operation -- also involved in speculative ventures that backfired enough that its continual operation is threatened; having the ability to turn the lights off would naturally give the local power company a lot of leverage negotiating for a bailout.

Suppose that the "too big to fail" banks were allowed to fail, and there was temporarily a severe disruption in the banking system. How would you propose that federal, state, and local law enforcement and other "essential services" get paid? With cash -- dangerous and risky? With checks -- while the banking system isn't reliably working? Would you trust them to work without pay for very long?

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