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Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

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Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#91

Post by binarycrusader »

geofft wrote: post #73
redwood631 wrote: post #13

This is running Linux binaries on Oracle Solaris (which they call SmartOS), and not the real thing that Oracle is still developing, but a fork from 2010 that is maintained by 1/10th of the developers it once had. https://www.openhub.net/p/illumos . This would have been pretty rad 10 years ago, when the world still cared about Solaris. On a minor note: the post doesn't credit Oracle or Solaris, from where more than 90…

The author worked for the Solaris team in Sun back when it was actually Sun and back when Solaris was actually being developed. Among other things, he was behind the invention of DTrace. He left the company shortly after the Oracle acquisition, after working for Sun for 14 years. I sorta feel like that gives him the right to credit or not credit Sun (and especially Oracle) as he sees fit.

Solaris is actually still being developed; I have no idea why you think otherwise. If anything, Oracle's been on a hiring spree since the acquisition and has grown the systems business considerably compared to Sun.

If you think Solaris isn't still in development, just wait for the Solaris 12 announcement details.

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#92

Post by pencilcode »

bau5 wrote: post #33

I saw the name and my desire to read it plummeted. The same person wrote http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun which led to one of the most talented developers of node core and libuv leaving the project for a while.

The fact that he wrote it actually wins him points in my book but it's not relevant to this discussion. Kudos to the Joyent team, i've been curious about dtrace for ages but never looked into it thinking i couldn't use it anyway (only use debian based distros at work) - maybe now is the time :)

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#93

Post by geofft »

binarycrusader wrote: post #91
geofft wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author worked for the Solaris team in Sun back when it was actually Sun and back when Solaris was actually being developed. Among other things, he was behind the invention of DTrace. He left the company shortly after the Oracle acquisition, after working for Sun for 14 years. I sorta feel like that gives him the right to credit or not credit Sun (and especially Oracle) as he sees fit.

Solaris is actually still being developed; I have no idea why you think otherwise. If anything, Oracle's been on a hiring spree since the acquisition and has grown the systems business considerably compared to Sun. If you think Solaris isn't still in development, just wait for the Solaris 12 announcement details.

I meant that with a bit of snark, which might have been completely misplaced. I did realize after writing that that Solaris is still under development. But most, if not all, of the Solaris that SmartOS incorporates (and DTrace and zones, specifically) was developed in the past at Sun, which is what 'redwood631 was referring to. That's also the only Solaris that I use personally (via OpenIndiana).

I will keep an eye out for Solaris 12 though, but I probably won't be using it; I have enough closed-source OSes in my life already. :(

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#94

Post by bahamat »

ssmoot wrote: post #54
nosequel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the entire point. It is one thing to not allow gender pronouns (what you are suggesting) versus punishing someone who specifically set out to change gender-neutral pronouns into male dominated ones (the Joyent case). REAL BIG difference.

Rolling back a commit is punishing, but saying you'd fire someone who did so (if they actually worked for you) isn't? That's just not reasonable. Going straight from "teaching moment" to pitch-forks is not going to help anyone accomplish anything productive.

Quoting Bryan[1]:

> It's not that he rejected the pull request...it's that when he was overruled by Isaac some hours later, he unilaterally reverted Isaac's commit. (And, it must be said, sent a very nasty private note to make clear that this was no accident.)

Rolling back the commit or disagreeing is and was not the issue. It was his attitude and behavior after reverting the commit.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9041086

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#95

Post by bahamat »

pyre wrote: post #24
redwood631 wrote: post #13

This is running Linux binaries on Oracle Solaris (which they call SmartOS), and not the real thing that Oracle is still developing, but a fork from 2010 that is maintained by 1/10th of the developers it once had. https://www.openhub.net/p/illumos . This would have been pretty rad 10 years ago, when the world still cared about Solaris. On a minor note: the post doesn't credit Oracle or Solaris, from where more than 90…

> until Oracle closed their code in 2010 At that point, why credit Oracle instead of Sun? Oracle finalized their deal to buy Sun in January 2010. How much did Oracle contribute between then and the announcement that they were closing their code? Edit: Oracle announced closing OpenSolaris on August 13, 2010. The last "release" of OpenSolaris was June 2009.

Oracle never publicly announced it. The last commit that I see copyrighted by Oracle is https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/commit/ea10ff14a02f7... on August 18, 2010. After that, updates from Oracle silently stop.

But your point stands well. Oracle only had a paltry 7-8 months of contributions.

In my opinion, and I really don't know who would share this view, since Sun opened Solaris, illumos is now what Solaris was intended to be; it's not the illumos community that forked Solaris, it was Oracle.

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#96

Post by bahamat »

geofft wrote: post #93
binarycrusader wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solaris is actually still being developed; I have no idea why you think otherwise. If anything, Oracle's been on a hiring spree since the acquisition and has grown the systems business considerably compared to Sun. If you think Solaris isn't still in development, just wait for the Solaris 12 announcement details.

I meant that with a bit of snark, which might have been completely misplaced. I did realize after writing that that Solaris is still under development. But most, if not all, of the Solaris that SmartOS incorporates (and DTrace and zones, specifically) was developed in the past at Sun, which is what 'redwood631 was referring to. That's also the only Solaris that I use personally (via OpenIndiana). I will keep an eye o…

Companies don't innovate, people do.

All of the technologies that illumos (and Solaris) is now known for (ZFS, Dtrace, crossbow, zones, RBAC, SMF, FMA) were developed by small teams of engineers taking charge. And nearly all of the developers of those technologies are now in the illumos community and notably not at Oracle.

Specifically, Dtrace is primarily the brain child of Bryan Cantrill of Joyent (co-developed with Adam Leventhal of Delphix and Mike Shapiro who left Oracle in 2010) and Jerry Jelinek of Joyent was one of the primary developers of Zones. Matt Ahrens and George Wilson, co-developers of ZFS along with Jeff Bohnwick, are now at Delphix with Adam. Though, as far as I know, Jeff is no longer involved with ZFS development.

All major features of Solaris 11 were developed in OpenSolaris. Solaris 11.1 major features are improvements to SMF, the installer, and the addition of ASLR. Major features in Solaris 11.2 are "kernel zones", OpenStack and SDN [1]. That's very little to show for five years of development.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_(operating_system)

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#97

Post by _delirium »

DannoHung wrote: post #37

Uh, so I've never really heard of SmartOS or Joyent's SDC before now... This stuff looks pretty fucking unreal. What's the catch? It looks like it solves so many problems with clustered container deployment. Exposing a whole datacenter as a single Docker host seems like the end-game to me. Am I missing something? I'm a little low on sleep today. edit: To answer my own question a little: I guess the docker-sdc isn't q…

The main catch (which may also be a plus) is that the Joyent set of technologies is quite opinionated about how to manage a cloud, so you more or less have to "buy in" and do things its way. Your node OS will be SmartOS, nodes will be PXE-booted, your filesystem will be ZFS, the network topology will work in a specific way, etc. More practically, it also takes some time to be proficient in operating it (or even just get it working), because there are quite a few moving parts. Getting a SmartDataCenter deployment running, and then things like Manta and now sdc-docker running on top of it, is more than an afternoon's work. But if you're willing to buy in to the system and its choices fit your needs, it's really well engineered, imo much more "done right" than e.g. OpenStack is.

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#98

Post by m_mueller »

thinkingkong wrote: post #5

Tldr. Triton lets you run your docker containers in the cloud without worrying about virtual machines or setting up your own paas. Signup here: https://www.joyent.com/lp/preview

What does this provide over running a Docker host running on a dedicated server?

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#99

Post by lojack »

m_mueller wrote: post #98
thinkingkong wrote: post #5

Tldr. Triton lets you run your docker containers in the cloud without worrying about virtual machines or setting up your own paas. Signup here: https://www.joyent.com/lp/preview

What does this provide over running a Docker host running on a dedicated server?

I haven't heard of this before today, but it seems as though with this you could scale out to multiple servers and it'll continue to be treated as a single docker host. It also isn't linux.

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#100

Post by ssmoot »

bahamat wrote: post #94
ssmoot wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rolling back a commit is punishing, but saying you'd fire someone who did so (if they actually worked for you) isn't? That's just not reasonable. Going straight from "teaching moment" to pitch-forks is not going to help anyone accomplish anything productive.

Quoting Bryan[1]: > It's not that he rejected the pull request...it's that when he was overruled by Isaac some hours later, he unilaterally reverted Isaac's commit. (And, it must be said, sent a very nasty private note to make clear that this was no accident.) Rolling back the commit or disagreeing is and was not the issue. It was his attitude and behavior after reverting the commit. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com…

Where's that note? I thought it was all public.

Either way, it's still just an issue of someone being stubborn about a PR that neither helped nor hindered the actual code.

If that's a fireable offense in your company, your HR processes are broken. Especially with no management in place to set any expectations on the topic.

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