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Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

joyent.com

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Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#61

Post by wmf »

ochoseis wrote: post #43
themgt wrote: post #21

Didn't see the actual repo linked: https://github.com/joyent/sdc-docker "A Docker Engine for SmartDataCenter, where the whole DC is exposed as a single docker host. The Docker remote API is served from a 'docker' core SDC zone (built from this repo). ... Disclaimer: This is still very much alpha. Use at your own risk!"

To me it seems like Triton is about shoehorning Linux into Solaris/SmartOS containers. While this seems great for accelerating adoption, why not just use SmartOS-specific Dockerfiles/repos in conjunction with sdc-docker (Not directly addressing the parent, more of a general question)? Imagine all of the crazy bugs and edge cases that will arise when trying to run Linux binaries on UNIX. I'm surely making some assumpt…

Docker multiarch support isn't finished yet, and getting all the world's Dockerfiles rebuilt on SmartOS is a big task.

There are also different philosophies about whether container images should be distributed as source (Dockerfiles) or as binaries. It looks like Joyent decided to run Linux/x86-64 binaries to be on the safe side.

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#62

Post by themgt »

lloydde wrote: post #53
themgt wrote: post #47

I find these to be pretty weasel words: Is Triton open source? Yes. Triton Elastic Container Infrastructure is the commercial offering built on the top of the open-source SmartDataCenter cloud infrastructure management platform. In addition to the open source components, Triton includes support, a DevOps portal, and intellectual property indemnification only available to commercial customers. In more plain English, "…

That's a good thing to clarify. It's not an open core system like Mac OS X. SmartDataCenter is open source and Triton is our product branding. https://github.com/joyent/sdc There is work in progress to clean up and open source the self-serve portal and its dependencies. The propriety bits are not ours: "The Joyent SDC USB images offered to our customers contain certain firmware binaries for use with Joyent-branded ha…

But what you're branding Triton in fact appears to be a PaaS GUI on top of SDC? i.e. the way people manage their containers/hw in Triton the service, is not available in SDC which seems to be all CLI tools?

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#63

Post by DannoHung »

lloydde wrote: post #53
themgt wrote: post #47

I find these to be pretty weasel words: Is Triton open source? Yes. Triton Elastic Container Infrastructure is the commercial offering built on the top of the open-source SmartDataCenter cloud infrastructure management platform. In addition to the open source components, Triton includes support, a DevOps portal, and intellectual property indemnification only available to commercial customers. In more plain English, "…

That's a good thing to clarify. It's not an open core system like Mac OS X. SmartDataCenter is open source and Triton is our product branding. https://github.com/joyent/sdc There is work in progress to clean up and open source the self-serve portal and its dependencies. The propriety bits are not ours: "The Joyent SDC USB images offered to our customers contain certain firmware binaries for use with Joyent-branded ha…

What does the bit about security patches and minor and major updates mean? The Product version includes automatic updates and the open source version you manage yourself? Or something else?

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#64

Post by steeef »

kordless wrote: post #8
SandB0x wrote: post #3

Can someone explain this in words that a time traveller from 2010 would understand?

Remember when virtual machines came out? That technology gave us tools to create a 'layered' effect for compute related resources on a single, managed machine. Microservice technologies, like Docker containers, are a logical extension of that layering into the process space on the machine, and in many cases multiple virtual machines running on a single machine. It's all about the layers, man.

Joyent actually extends this and allows you to treat an entire datacenter as your docker host, similar to how you can use a product like VMware to cluster ESX hosts together.

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#65

Post by lloydde »

DannoHung wrote: post #63
lloydde wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good thing to clarify. It's not an open core system like Mac OS X. SmartDataCenter is open source and Triton is our product branding. https://github.com/joyent/sdc There is work in progress to clean up and open source the self-serve portal and its dependencies. The propriety bits are not ours: "The Joyent SDC USB images offered to our customers contain certain firmware binaries for use with Joyent-branded ha…

What does the bit about security patches and minor and major updates mean? The Product version includes automatic updates and the open source version you manage yourself? Or something else?

Would you quote the bits here, so I can clarify with the product side of the house?

We have not and never will let anything jeopardize the continued security of any SDC deployments.

SDC having update channels is under active development:

'As of sdcadm version 1.5.5 and the release-20150319, SmartDataCenter has preliminary support for update "channels". A "channel" is separate stream of built SDC components with different stability characteristics.'

https://github.com/joyent/sdc/blob/master/docs/operator-guid...

I image that the support channel will be the most conservative.

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#66

Post by CamTin »

jgrowl wrote: post #41
CamTin wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is cool RIGHT NOW because WHO THE HELL CARES WHAT THE UNDERLYING OS IS? For a user trying to bring something to market, here's what matters: 1) it's cheaper (theoretically, due to performance savings from not dealing with hardware virtualization), and 2) it looks like a docker host I honestly expected Docker Hub to expand into this kind of operation before anyone else, but Joyent, from out of nowhere, has done i…

I was wondering how this would compete with docker swarm. Is my understanding right that docker swarm basically lets you run an agent on individual docker hosts whereas triton will let you run a single virtual docker host?

Docker swarm basically lets you say "I want to deploy this image somewhere, you choose from the available actual machines" based on constraints that you've set up. You also had to actually set up the machines themselves (though docker-machine is intended to take some of the pain out of this).

sdc-docker (the tech behind this, Triton) basically lets you just keep deploying containers without any regard for the actual underlying machines (or EC2 instances, DO droplets, Linodes) that you are actually deploying to. It's like docker-machine + docker-swarm but all automatic and managed by guys on the other side of the curtain, so you can just write the checks and keep the Docker goodness flowing.

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#67

Post by lloydde »

themgt wrote: post #62
lloydde wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good thing to clarify. It's not an open core system like Mac OS X. SmartDataCenter is open source and Triton is our product branding. https://github.com/joyent/sdc There is work in progress to clean up and open source the self-serve portal and its dependencies. The propriety bits are not ours: "The Joyent SDC USB images offered to our customers contain certain firmware binaries for use with Joyent-branded ha…

But what you're branding Triton in fact appears to be a PaaS GUI on top of SDC? i.e. the way people manage their containers/hw in Triton the service, is not available in SDC which seems to be all CLI tools?

As the Docker Engine for SDC is being developed to the Docker API and CLI, Triton can be used through any Docker ux. https://github.com/joyent/sdc-docker/blob/master/docs/diverg...

The interesting bits are not the self-serve portal. The portal is good for introducing the stack and supplementing the experience, but few use a portal for infrastructure management -- they require more automation, specific to their business.

We're working hard on getting the self-server portal code architecture and hygiene up to open sourcing it. From there we can get these portal plugins open as well. Our on-prem customers are hungry for this, as many of them have a mandate for OSS.

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#68

Post by nemothekid »

CamTin wrote: post #66
jgrowl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering how this would compete with docker swarm. Is my understanding right that docker swarm basically lets you run an agent on individual docker hosts whereas triton will let you run a single virtual docker host?

Docker swarm basically lets you say "I want to deploy this image somewhere, you choose from the available actual machines" based on constraints that you've set up. You also had to actually set up the machines themselves (though docker-machine is intended to take some of the pain out of this). sdc-docker (the tech behind this, Triton) basically lets you just keep deploying containers without any regard for the actual…

>sdc-docker (the tech behind this, Triton) basically lets you just keep deploying containers without any regard for the actual underlying machines (or EC2 instances, DO droplets, Linodes) that you are actually deploying to. It's like docker-machine + docker-swarm but all automatic and managed by guys on the other side of the curtain, so you can just write the checks and keep the Docker goodness flowing.

Not sure I get this - Is this any different from mesos/kubernetes? If I am running this software and deploying my own datacenter someone stills need to provision the machines.

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#69

Post by jgrowl »

nemothekid wrote: post #68
CamTin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker swarm basically lets you say "I want to deploy this image somewhere, you choose from the available actual machines" based on constraints that you've set up. You also had to actually set up the machines themselves (though docker-machine is intended to take some of the pain out of this). sdc-docker (the tech behind this, Triton) basically lets you just keep deploying containers without any regard for the actual…

> sdc-docker (the tech behind this, Triton) basically lets you just keep deploying containers without any regard for the actual underlying machines (or EC2 instances, DO droplets, Linodes) that you are actually deploying to. It's like docker-machine + docker-swarm but all automatic and managed by guys on the other side of the curtain, so you can just write the checks and keep the Docker goodness flowing. Not sure I g…

I'm still fuzzy on this also, but it sounded like it would fill a very similar role as kubernetes except that they are claiming superior performance.

Re: Triton: Docker and the “best of all worlds”

#70

Post by DannoHung »

lloydde wrote: post #65
DannoHung wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the bit about security patches and minor and major updates mean? The Product version includes automatic updates and the open source version you manage yourself? Or something else?

Would you quote the bits here, so I can clarify with the product side of the house? We have not and never will let anything jeopardize the continued security of any SDC deployments. SDC having update channels is under active development: 'As of sdcadm version 1.5.5 and the release-20150319, SmartDataCenter has preliminary support for update "channels". A "channel" is separate stream of built SDC components with diffe…

The check-marks at the end of the page here, which compares Joyent Triton to Open Source SmartDataCenter:

https://www.joyent.com/private-cloud

    Maintenance and Upgrades
    Minor and major upgrades
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